Editor vs. Creator -- The Ongoing Battle

[Scarface]

Sorry if i'm rude but....why the fuck were you doing an amv for somebody?
do the stuff alone! including the amv idea if the idea isn't yours
the originality of the video goes into the dumpster

[PDFarsight]

Eheh... maybe I should elaborate a little.

you can always ask him to find the "correct" clip to replace it with...

but if you learn your clean up then it shouldnt matter either way O.o

This was the problem. I saved the chats we had, and I tried rereading them to remember exactly what he suggested, but I got too mad reading through them again. I don't remember the specific things he suggested, but I do remember this: his clip ideas were utterly ridiculous. He was trying to appeal to people who don't even watch the anime, whereas I was trying to make a thematic vid that made sense to people who had seen it already (if I had my way, no one would ever see my music videos without having already watched the episodes I took the clips from--they contain spoilers ><).

Punch your friend in the nuts in the figurative sense by throwing the video back at him and telling him to go ahead and upload it. You yourself said it's not release quality and he can't possibly fix it up himself. If it's flawed as it is, let him take credit for it. Make him realize that his ideas don't mean shit without technical know-how and execution by forcing him to swallow a half-assed product.

I did offer him full control of the video. At the end of the argument I said, "Okay, fine, the video is yours. Edit it as you see fit. I want NO recognition for it." Of course, after two weeks of trying he still hadn't figured out how to cut out subtitles, add the special effects or export it to a playable file less than 3GB, and he came back and said "So when are you going to finish the video? " as if nothing happened. That's when I offered him my paid services, and he blew up again. Guess he realized he can't do squat with his "genius ideas" without me.

Since it's caused so much drama between you two, I would suggest biting the bullet, scrapping the thing and letting him edit his own damn videos from now on. Yeah, it's wasted effort on your part and that's a shame, but if it's going to be such a hassle to hash out the last couple of steps toward releasing it, just think of it as a learning experience. Sounds like nothing is going to make both of you happy, so I'd bury this one and move on.

This is what I ended up doing. I actually started this vid last summer: from then until now, it has sat on both of our computers, and we promised we wouldn't show it to anyone besides close friends--but the more I watch it, the more I think it's really a shame to have this video not seen by anyone. The song fits the theme too perfectly, and I will give him that--it was brilliant putting this theme and the song together. But let me assure you, that and being a semi-objective sync tester is about all he was good for. He didn't offer good clip suggestions at all, and more complicated things than helped. I could have gotten my sister to do what he did, and without having to export it every time she asked for it (she wouldn't have XD).

I say release the good version first. A few days later, make a second version for the friend, with the change they insist on, and let them release the sub average version themselves. No colab status on either. one would be just for you, one would just be for the friend.

I think this is against a-m-v.org rules...?

Sorry if i'm rude but....why the !@#$ were you doing an amv for somebody?
do the stuff alone! including the amv idea if the idea isn't yours
the originality of the video goes into the dumpster

The idea wasn't especially original to begin with. "Hey you should do a vid about Naruto and Sasuke..." Hmm, yeah, that's never been done before! T_T That was my first impression of the idea, but after listening to the song my brain got going, and I realized it could actually be really good, so I started it. Also, this friend and I have known each other for a long time, and we've collaborated on other (non-video) projects, only then he recognized that I did most of the work and the final say was mine, but that might have been because he didn't even know how to upload anything to ANY website at the time. I didn't expect that he'd get this attitude, so I didn't see a problem with it.

So, to summarize:

• ( ) I started this video in collaboration with a friend with whom I had successfully collaborated with in the past. I wasn't making it for him, but with him, because I thought it would be something fun we could do together.
  
  ( ) Even if he hadn't offered his opinion anyway, asking him for clip suggestions would have been thematic suicide. His "ideas", for the most part, were utter crap.
  
  ( ) He knows nothing about music videos and even less about what it actually takes to make one. He couldn't have added those clips in himself if he tried, though I did trick him into thinking he could for a while.
  
  ( ) We discussed releasing two seperate versions, but I am pretty sure that is against the a-m-v.org rules. The clips in question comprise about 10 seconds of the video.

Eventually we ended it by bitterly scrapping the project, both of us agreeing to never release it to anyone we don't personally know. I didn't talk to him for months and I thought the friendship was over, but I eventually got over it.

Unfortunately, in my anger I deleted all the raw files I worked with and the project files themselves. All I have left is one nearly-complete exported file, and even though it's not ready for public production, most people can tell it will be a good video.

UPDATE: Talked with friend about it. Since video quality is all he cares about (T_T), he said that if I could get the two scenes (naruto vs. haku and naruto vs. neji and gaara) to look the same, then he would allow me to release the video (I previously promised him I would never publically release it without his permission). Working with filters now, but it's not proving easy. >< I'm relatively new to them.

Thanks to everyone for all your advice and support. I think once we've had some time to cool off he's thinking a bit more rationally now... especially since he might actually get what he wanted. Now my problem is to recreate the entire video. >< But as someone already said, the real work--choosing the clips--has already been done. It won't take especially long to edit them together again. Thanks again for all the advice.

[ANTDrakko]

I'm glad to see that you have the situation worked out.

However, might I suggest a new way of asking people to beta test?

AMV IRC Chat.

Chances are, there are at least 1 or 2 people in there that can give you their unbiased opinion.

Good luck on your video and most importantly, Have Fun.

~Seen

[JaddziaDax]

I say release the good version first. A few days later, make a second version for the friend, with the change they insist on, and let them release the sub average version themselves. No colab status on either. one would be just for you, one would just be for the friend.

I think this is against a-m-v.org rules...?

actually as far as i know its not, because technically its an entirely new video, even with slight changes in editing... O.o one would be a remastered version... kinda like when George Lucas "remastered" star wars... its just not the same anymore

[madbunny]

If he was paying for the video it's his.

If he was working with you, on the video it's shared. That's the whole point of the studio system.

If it was you doing the work on your idea, and him offering suggestions via the beta test system it's yours.

[Corran]

I say release the good version first. A few days later, make a second version for the friend, with the change they insist on, and let them release the sub average version themselves. No colab status on either. one would be just for you, one would just be for the friend.

I think this is against a-m-v.org rules...?

actually as far as i know its not, because technically its an entirely new video, even with slight changes in editing... O.o one would be a remastered version... kinda like when George Lucas "remastered" star wars... its just not the same anymore

Pretty close. Remasters don't deserve a new video entry since a remaster according to the org is simply an improvement in video quality. If there are any significant edits beyond the adjustment of say a few fades, then it deserves its own seperate entry.

[JaddziaDax]

I say release the good version first. A few days later, make a second version for the friend, with the change they insist on, and let them release the sub average version themselves. No colab status on either. one would be just for you, one would just be for the friend.

I think this is against a-m-v.org rules...?

actually as far as i know its not, because technically its an entirely new video, even with slight changes in editing... O.o one would be a remastered version... kinda like when George Lucas "remastered" star wars... its just not the same anymore

Pretty close. Remasters don't deserve a new video entry since a remaster according to the org is simply an improvement in video quality. If there are any significant edits beyond the adjustment of say a few fades, then it deserves its own seperate entry.

note the lucas reference his "remasters" were more than just a few fades