We need a leader

[JaddziaDax]

For those of us who weren't here when Euhphoria came out, was it really that much of a leading video? Or did it just leave a large impact on a small community, with 1984 by uh.... the guy, leaving a relatively same large impact but on a much larger community? Suberenker? Studioesh?

Canada needs annexed because of global warming, resources, and, I like cold climates. I suppose I could just give the Canadian government a $20 for the Yukon. If the entire population of Canada fits in the Tokyo region, they certainly have room elsewhere for the 5 guys living there.

1985...

it was done before a couple times, he just came along and did it better...

[RichLather]

We don't need a "leader" but I do think there is considerable need for guidance counselors and head-shrinkers (not psychologists, but folks who can constructively tell a newbie that his craptacular Naruto AMV is not good by any stretch and that there are ways to improve).

[RichLather]

Double posting to say that I don't consider myself one of these head-shrinkers. I'm too much of a cranky old coot for that--an insidious fusion of Al Swerengen and Simon Cowell.

I don't shrink newbie heads--I poke them with pins and watch them fly around the room. Thhhpppbpbpbpbt

[Kusoyaro]

We don't need a leader. We need to SHUT UP. Make what you want to make, don't make you what you don't want to make. If neither of those applies to you, then you need to SHUT UP MORE.

Fight fair, not like elves, you fucking dustbuster!

[Flint the Dwarf]

We don't need a leader. We need to SHUT UP. Make what you want to make, don't make you what you don't want to make. If neither of those applies to you, then you need to SHUT UP MORE.

I think this might need to go in my sig.

[Heero_Yuy84]

The call goes out for a leader and, once again, the Adv1sor steps up to the plate with the definitive AMV, Girls.

Swing and a miss! (...or so it appears)

[Fluxmeister]

For those of us who weren't here when Euhphoria came out, was it really that much of a leading video?

This is how I remember it:


bahahaha

[MCWagner]

Doing a bunch of compression. That'll teach me to stoke a flamewar and walk away for a day.

...many fewer people did greater innovation with fewer resources than what I see now...

The barrier to entry was much higher, and thus the demographic was substantially different. Only the really dedicated got into this.

This seems to argue against your previous point that the "artistic advancement" results best from everyone just doing small variations of the popular stuff. The "really dedicated" (implied by your association), would more readily expand in new directions than the "new demographic." I'm wondering why the old demographic seems to be dying off in favor of the new (not overpopulating, actively driving out).

Single videos would catch everyone's attention and fascination for YEARS at a time. People spoke about the vids with a sense of AWE. Why don't we do that anymore?

Some of us do. I still appreciate, say, this video.

This is me being unclear. I was trying to ask "why don't we have that sense of AWE about the newer set of videos that we did in previous years"?

You're pining for a smaller scene, with fewer people and fewer videos.

I'm pining for a more dynamic and inventive scene, even if buried within a larger crowd.

It is possible to have new ideas. It was demonstrated countless times at the start of the hobby. Why shouldn't we encourage that revitalization?

Except sitting here and talking about it like this isn't really encouraging things in any substantive manner.

Maybe if the semantics died down, and everyone stopped trying to take offense on behalf of the entire community, we could start encouraging and discussing it. Or at least debating whether or not it exists. Right now we're just debating wether or not we should debate.

I'm saying that before you can really be in a position to make blanket statements about the entire forest, you need to actually look at the entire forest.

I see a lot of forest.

And Kalium, could you post a list of the various long-form videos? I have never even heard of anything remotely resembling my video, let alone seen another that shares similarities. Something else is out there that tells a 10+ minute narative using multiple songs and anime rearranged to create its own context?

The one that springs to mind is a submission we got way back in the day (6-7 years) that strung about 17 minutes of Pink Floyd's "The Wall" together to "Lain." In truth it dragged rather badly in parts, but managed some spectacularly creepy matching around "Another Brick in the Wall(2)". (Can't find it on the site, or I'd link.)

Flux: That seems a private conversation b/w you and Beo, so I'll stay outta it.

Kevin and Joe were both leaders. They got the hell out of AMVs. We could all learn much from this.

MM, one of the best AMVers I ever saw, recently said that "the moment video editing became available on the home PC and accessable to everyone, the entire hobby should have packed up shop and gone home." Should I follow that?

and Wagner... damn I have tried to become a model citizen so why you got to be hatin. hehe

Damn, dude, you still around? I thought you left for greener pastures. Consider it payback for leaving us hanging at that first Iron Chef.

We don't need a leader. We need to SHUT UP. Make what you want to make, don't make you what you don't want to make. If neither of those applies to you, then you need to SHUT UP MORE.

Sounds like we should shut the boards down entirely.

In an attempt at something constructive:

As pointed out, none of the 'great' videos that have been the 'leaders' of this community were anything that could not have been predicted beforehand. Before "Engel" there were great videos that were very similar. What "Engel" did was add in the hilarity of Asuka lipsyncing to bad German rock music, AND be a great exercise in internal sync and external sync, AND just be a fun video in toto. It wasn't necessarily groundbreaking, but it was a great concept with elements from previous videos done BETTER than a lot of previous videos. That is I think the key.

The problem with this kind of extension, is the inevitable sea of imitators trying to "perfect" the technique: slight variations on other's ideas with a less inspired follow-through. I see a lot of videos that I can only describe as "toys". Some neat effect doing the rounds that everyone wants a piece of... most recently the way that lipsynch videos have consumed almost the entire "comedy" category of contests, grafting the effect on mediocre matches of audio/video. We used to complain about comedy videos that were only popular because they were funny songs, & the video match was pretty pedestrian. Now it seems like constant repetition of "make the little girl swear like a sailor" and similar jokes. It almost doesn't matter which series you choose, grab anything off the shelf.

"Toys," I fear, are gonna be the bane of the next AMV flood: instead of tools to make a good video, they become the whole point of the video instead. Everyone'll want, for example, to have their own "The Race"-style video with dozens of characters interacting, but without any real point. (Unlike that video, which tried to tell a story with it.) Sometimes I catch myself wondering if "Toy" videos even really need music, 'cause it's so extraneous to just playing with the effects. (All the more heartbreaking because we know the tedious work some of these toys require to just make a... tedious video.)

So I actually have the reverse perspective as BMA, the "good" (let's stop using "groundbreaking" as it seems to piss a lot of people off) videos aren't good because they carried off a particular technique better than before (though they frequently did) but because they used the technique to some larger purpose. If Engel, for example, had reversed the Asuka/Shinji voice pairing, it would have been great technically, but readily forgotten among ALL the other Eva vids. The fun part of the video, the core concept that everyone found hilarious and memorable, the starting idea, is the most essential. Swapping the voices came first, then all the tech styling was used to make it shiny. I'm really concerned that this seems to be getting lost, that people think tech tricks are what makes really great vids, and that's it's all about a hunt for the newest "toy" instead of looking for that "OH MY GOD" (Ha ha Hsien) perfect thematic matching of video and audio. I have one freind in particular who (IMHO) is DESTROYING his vids by trying to over-tech & speed up brilliant matches. If I had any advice for a newcomer it'd be this:

Nothing substitutes for sincerity.

Really loving and having fun with a great video idea SHOWS in the final product, even if you're not great on the tech end. Stop trying to outdo one another with advanced tech toys, and try to out-do them at the start with an amazing core concept.

And before anyone accuses me of disliking over-teched videos because they're over-teched, let me say that I like Euphoria. The level of manipulation is staggering and intimidating for AMVers, but putting that aside, it's f***ing PRETTY. Instead of storytelling, it's going for a delirious, vertiginous, harmonic assault on the senses to further evoke the strangely graceful, frantic nature of the song. It HAD to have all those flying shapes & tech touches coming at us high speed to work properly. It's a mood-evocative video that used high-tech toys for a higher purpose. Similarly, I gave Vicbond a Jacket for one of the most over-teched videos ever done to Haibane, because the tech touches were being used to drive home a brilliant match of song and video where the two worked together to comment on one another.

So what does this have to do with encouraging new groudbre... uh... "good" videos? I think everyone's looking in the wrong direction, looking for new toys, when they should be looking for new ideas in the core concepts of videos. New ways of storytelling or not-story-telling. The DDR projects I count as new and interesting because it shoved thirty editors into a project and said "make something continuous". AMV Hell, similarly inventive in rapid-fire channel-change. Jbone's "silent AMV" I thought was great (though some people might think it too artsy considering the background needed), Ian's "Gothic Fairytale", with the audio just an instrumental counterpoint to his entirely invented story, Aluminum's "Closer" that clearly referenced the original band's video, all the way round & back home to Dark-Krystal's "Things Have Changed" and Lee's "Rainbow Connection" demonstrating the two extremes of tech being used to support that essential, brilliant core concept of finding the perfect matches.

But that's just my opinion.

[Lyrs]

god damn, that's a long opinion.

[mexicanjunior]

bahahaha

#25 rawks!