etiquette of criticism

[BasharOfTheAges]

Wait, criticism on the announcements forum? The announcement forum is where people finally get around to posting stuff they did weeks or months ago that all their friends have already seen a dozen times. Replies are bumps to keep the thread on the front page disguised as feedback that had already been given in private. This is no place for actual criticism! Are you mad?

[UnluckyArtist]

Bashar has a point, most actual critique is done in privates now I'm sure. The announcement forum at one time was probably taken more seriously but nowadays people are going to other sources for their new videos, it's like the org announcements is local newspaper while re-up channels and amv sites is the more current online news article.

[tayuyashoujo]

I don't like leaving comments that are purely positive or negative, so if I can't come up with anything to balance my main point I usually won't say anything. That said, I also try to avoid exaggeration or lying. I think it's important to critique videos and help editors improve, but I also think that (especially new) editors receiving comments about nothing but the bad can likely discourage them from continuing at all. I also generally just don't have much to say when I watch most videos. Whether I liked it or not, sometimes I've just got nothing in particular to say beyond "I liked it" or "I didn't like it" and I see no point in posting just that, as it serves no purpose beyond building or breaking an ego.
Though, like CrackTheSky, I am much more likely to put effort into feedback if the editor makes it clear that they're open to it. I've seen far too many editors react poorly (and aggressively) to negative feedback so if an editor isn't clear about wanting it, I probably won't give it. Thankfully most of those negative reactions are confined to youtube, which isn't exactly the best forum for giving helpful critique anyway.

As for what Bashar and UnluckyArtist said, that doesn't really take new editors into consideration though. A lot of new editors probably post here in hopes of receiving feedback because they don't know anyone who could in private, and chances are they don't really have any sort of audience anywhere else.

[Kionon]

We could bring back #amv-review?

I think once we lost godix (for the hilariously negative) and quu (for the awesomely positive), I think it was really difficult for me to continue to be part of the community. I've started editing again, but I think it's fair to say that I've never been part of the AMV scene as a whole. Even back in the late 90s, my entire AMV world was really relegated to handful of people. A number of those people have retired, some of them have outright disappeared, and a few have actually died. Others have finally given up on being vocal because they have become fed up with the petty sniping which has zero to do with criticism of AMVs, and everything to do with personal attacks.

*shrug*

[Rider4Z]

What a great topic! I apologize to everyone who has posted so far, I have not read what you had to say cuz I'm eager to put in my opinion on the subject SINCE IT WAS ASKED FOR. (see what i did there )

My etiquette of criticism is pretty simple. If someone publicly asks for criticism then I'm perfectly fine giving negative criticism as long as it's CONSTRUCTIVE. Obviously, if I see something wrong I need to point it out so they know to avoid doing it again. But if someone simply posts/announces their video without asking for critique I will generally keep my mouth shut if I have no interest. I grew up believing if you can't say something nice don't say anything at all. You're not a badass for pointing out what's wrong with other people and their work. It's okay if they ask you for it.

[Gene Starwind 21122]

I'm hoping to be more active on here leaving feedback like I use to. When I leave feedback even if a video bores me or I see a lot of glaring "things that could be improved upon" I will never use the words mistake or that was just horrible. For as an editor and a coordinator I know it takes a lot of work to make an AMV. Just because someone doesn't know how to do something, or follow the lyrics etc. I'm not going to completely trash there video. I will try to find some good to build the editors confidence. Then I usually say what can be improved upon. After that I leave my personal opinion of what I thought. So there's always 3 parts to my reviews : The Good, The Needs to be worked on, and Personal thoughts.

[shumira_chan]

It's a character flaw of mine that feedback will have no effect whatsoever on what I do or how I do it. I tend to project that unto others, diminishing my own desire to provide any sort of opinion. I do deal with comments received in a engaging albeit succinct manner.

[TritioAFB]

One day ago last comment in amv announcements was posted. Do we have to look for criticism now in skype?

[seasons]

Obviously, you've got to be tactful and constructive and encouraging etc. Or at least you've got to try. All that definitely applies to editors who are asking for a critique but when it comes to your average post with a video link and little else, is holding back real criticism (no matter how tactful you try to make it) simply better for everyone involved?

I know, no one writes opinions anymore. I do, from time to time. Sometimes I even drop 'em on videos out of the blue. One might think that opinions are, by their very nature, better-suited for criticism, but is it really any different? I've got a blog. Should I stick to writing about AMVs I like? Because I haven't always done that! I've actually written quite a few harsh opinions and blog entries for AMVs that I hated! Maybe I felt like the glowing opinions I'd written wouldn't mean as much if they weren't balanced out with some very negative ones? In hindsight, I don't know what my thought process was behind all these instances but I think I could have made better decisions about it than I have.



I was writing reviews for movies and albums-- they weren't very good and quite often were very bad but that's not the point -- long before I got into AMVs, so my mindset about writing reviews or even comments has been tough to change, even with all the time I've had to change it. One of the only meaningful things I got out of all that was the realization that taking shots at someone's work might feel good at first, but it always resulted in reviews that I'd look back on and cringe at. Anytime you start dwelling in the feeling of being above someone else's work or go into a review looking to take someone down a peg is a good time to step away from the computer and reconsider what you're doing with your time. In the end, at least someone else got something finished that they felt good enough about to share with the world. That's kind of a cliche but it's more true than the tough-love police would ever admit.

Kind of blabbering at this point, maybe I just wanted to post that Ratatouille picture.

I personally love when people tear my stuff apart, I'm never going to learn unless someone does.

I'll try to remember that!

[ngsilver]

I've never really been big on giving out criticism. For me the biggest approval or statement I can make about a video is to share it with others, which is something I love doing. I am one of the few who actually does use the announcement forums judiciously when looking for new videos. I download EVERYTHING announced there. Of course, often by the time I do so, as I do it in large batches, the threads are usually locked so there isn't really any chance to make a post. I rarely follow those YT re-posters because most of the time they focus on flashy, effects heavy, and clean openings compilations and you rarely get anything new and interesting. Every year at Youma I run a 2 hour panel called 'nat-chan's top 10' where I showcase my favorite videos from the year and I really should probably post those lists again. If I didn't troll the announcement forums many of these unique videos I would not have found.

I did have fun doing the TWIAMVs thing and I have been mulling over bringing it back as a weekly showcase provided I can find the time to work on it as well as my YT channel. Either way, for me showcasing a video is what I prefer to do for feedback, but from time to time I'll PM people with feedback unsolicited.

I do get contacted frequently to provide beta feedback and other feedback on released privately. Not as much as when #amvreview was going on and #amv was active, but quite a bit. I try to provide the best feedback I can but honestly, while I can call out technical things all day it's the emotional effect that often draws me to a video more then anything and it's hard to provide feedback on that. As I've said before, I am a fan before editor, so it's actually hard to break that mindset when watching videos. That's why I tend to only give short responses usually unless I'm asked directly and also why it takes me so much time to write a review.

Honestly, as an artist I'm always open to criticism and love it when my works are torn apart. I've developed a thick skin from years of fiction writing and author clubs and groups. I see a lot of new editors, especially back in the day, who get offended by negative reviews because they cannot separate themselves from their works and just want quick gratification. I admit, I was like that at first. But I grew out of that fairly quickly. I can't stand 'I like it' or 'I hate it' comments as they really mean nothing to me. Why did you hate it? Why did you like it? A lot of my friends that's all I can get from them when I make videos and show it to them and really that doesn't help me improve or learn. It's actually why I love the feedback we do for AWA Pro, as it's a chance to hear some honest reviews on my work. That's actually a reason why I tend to send 'beta' entries in and then take the feedback and finish the video based on it. I did that with 'Go' and I'm currently doing it with 'Drive'.