Off Topic Section Removed

mexicanjunior · Post by **mexicanjunior** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 2:15 am

MCWagner wrote:Well, you may want to note that you're putting words in their mouths here. They say that the activity in OT was driving off "useful" members. You interpret "useful" to mean either "big name" or "elite". I took them to mean "people who weren't spamming, posting porn, or inciting flamewars." In other words, the people not acting like assholes. "Useful people were leaving because the OT forums were bringing in the kind of useless people which make the site unenjoyable for those who chose not to tolerate their shinanigans." They didn't say that all of the OT posters did that, they said that OT was bringing them in. Can you deny that OT has attracted some really annoying individuals? You see a division between the "elite" and "OT posters", I see the division between "complete assholes that've been banned multiple times who happen to hang out solely in OT" and "everyone else." We're not talking about the same groups.

Annoying individuals can post on any number of different sections of the forums, saying OT was the sole reason for their presence and behavior doesn't seem fair to me. For every annoying person that posted in OT, others could be found in General Anime or General Music, why is one facet of the forums taking the brunt of the punishment and blame for it's downfall? Like I said though, I really have no stake in this either way, I just hate to see so many posters be marked as "undesirables" solely for the forum section they chose to post in. I do agree with most pro OT eliminators though in saying that it is Phade's toy and he can play with it any way he chooses.

MCWagner · Post by **MCWagner** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 2:27 am

mexicanjunior wrote: Annoying individuals can post on any number of different sections of the forums, saying OT was the sole reason for their presence and behavior doesn't seem fair to me. For every annoying person that posted in OT, others could be found in General Anime or General Music, why is one facet of the forums taking the brunt of the punishment and blame for it's downfall? Like I said though, I really have no stake in this either way, I just hate to see so many posters be marked as "undesirables" solely for the forum section they chose to post in. I do agree with most pro OT eliminators though in saying that it is Phade's toy and he can play with it any way he chooses.

Do you really think that's true? There is as much spam and necessitated moderation in GA than in OT? I know I've been away for a long time, but that hardly seems possible. Note that I'm talking about people breaking the rules and being annoying on purpose, not the squealing kiddies who don't know better.

You're putting words in their mouths again. They didn't say that they're "undesireables" because of the forum they post in, they're saying that there are a lot of assholes in OT, not that all of them are. They're not saying that it was the sole reason for their presence, they're saying that facet is taking the fall, because it's the facet that keeps attracting new assholes. It's taking the brunt of the "punishment" because it's the biggest concentration of the problem. (Which you as much admit in your comment that "the mods were getting tired of babysitting the OT" was a good enough reason.) If there's moths in your honey, maybe you should turn off the lamp over it.

mexicanjunior · Post by **mexicanjunior** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 2:50 am

MCWagner wrote: You're putting words in their mouths again. They didn't say that they're "undesireables" because of the forum they post in, they're saying that there are a lot of assholes in OT, not that all of them are. They're not saying that it was the sole reason for their presence, they're saying that facet is taking the fall, because it's the facet that keeps attracting new assholes. It's taking the brunt of the "punishment" because it's the biggest concentration of the problem. (Which you as much admit in your comment that "the mods were getting tired of babysitting the OT" was a good enough reason.) If there's moths in your honey, maybe you should turn off the lamp over it.

I just feel your entire argument that OT attracted the "asshole" element of the community is way to generalized. I posted in OT, does that make me part of the "useless" element a-m-v.org wishes to eliminate? There are many others like me, people that aren't assholes and yet still found some enjoyment out of using that section of the forums. I noticed in your journal, you mention names of the people you despised that ran amok in OT...if you can single out individuals, why were they not dealt with as individuals instead of putting a blanket over that whole section of the forums and saying "you are ruining our site with your BS, no soup for you!". How soon will it be before the forum sections I mentioned (GA and GM) garner the same treatment. I've seen threads in both sections escalate to flames and idiocy, so I don't see how either will last. Also, in regards to my statement about "babysitting the OT", it is a very valid reason, mods shouldn't have to moderate more than what is neccessary. At the same time, in the mod response, it states very clearly the removal of OT was also done to eliminate the "useless" faction, which I deem to mean "undesirable", solely because they no longer wish for those members to remain active here. All I'm saying is, "useless members" should not be synonimous with "OT" section as a whole and I feel you are painting it out to be. You or the mods may not have come out and said it (hence all the "words in the mouth" statements) but I feel it is strongly implied.

Arigatomina · Post by **Arigatomina** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 2:58 am

Phade wrote:It has become too much of a clique/social gathering of people who are not really contributing to world of anime music videos.

Just in case people forget what Phade gave as his primary reason for deleting OT. The mention of the Mods came after this statement, making it a secondary reason at best.

A social gathering of non-contributing people, otherwise dubbed a 'useless lump' - yes, that is saying the people who posted there were part of the 'useless lump'. No exceptions are given in this statement (the announcement at the head of this thread - forget the controversy over possible reasons, Phade decided to do it, and he gives his reasons very clear and simple - useless lump, social gathering of non-contributing people). Any mention of the Mod's efforts only comes after this statement on the 'sort' of people who posted there.

[I'm not arguing, just reminding people what Phade said, since there seems to be some dispute over *why* OT was deleted.]

CaTaClYsM · Post by **CaTaClYsM** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 3:06 am

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=clique

now lets compare the OT forum members as a clique against the elitists. Which group does the defenition clique aply to better?

kthulhu · Post by **kthulhu** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 3:23 am

Maybe when Demonseal "broke", it changed something in the cosmic order

.

I can't help but feel that I somehow contributed to this

...

Oh well, the exodus continues...

Nappy · Post by **Nappy** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 3:24 am

You shoulda done this :P

[MOD359]Half the reason for the removal of the OT forums is that they were detracting from the rest of the site. Useful people were leaving because the OT forums were bringing in the kind of useless people which make the site unenjoyable for those who chose not to tolerate their shinanigans. Removing those people makes the site more useful, because more useful people will be around.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=elitism

Arigatomina · Post by **Arigatomina** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 3:43 am

CaTaClYsM wrote:http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=clique

now lets compare the OT forum members as a clique against the elitists. Which group does the defenition clique aply to better?

Nappy wrote:http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=elitism

Ah, but who would admit to being a member of the elite crowd?

Oh, right...it was a page or two back when a certain mod and member boasted of being in that group. And so very proud of it, they were...

Better to be the elite than part of the useless lump.

SSJVegita0609 · Post by **SSJVegita0609** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 3:53 am

[quote=MC Wagner]Can you deny that OT has attracted some really annoying individuals?[/quote]

The first time I saw Hatter post was in General AMV, and he's considered one of the most hated members of the org, does that make General AMV any less of an interesting forum? No.

Also there's been this throwing around of the term "useful". The invisimods (one of them at least), seem(s) to state that GOT drove off useful members, and arguement which many, including myself, think is absolute bullshit (no offense). It all comes down to your definition of "useful", which, like many other things, is different based on the individual.

Exhibit A: I see a member who makes VERY good AMVs post in AMV Announcements telling some n00b that his first video is absolutely terrible and they should just quit because they'll never be able to produce anything that people will enjoy. Is the person being a generally good, or "useful", member of the community? Some would say yes, because he makes fabulous and enjoyable videos, others would say no, because he'
s discouraging people from editing. This is what I see the paradox of the word "useful" in terms of the org at least, and the reason that any arguement making the general statement that "useful" people were driven away by 3 sections at the bottom of the forum simply can't be made.

CaTaClYsM · Post by **CaTaClYsM** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 4:12 am

Arigatomyna wrote:
CaTaClYsM wrote:http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=clique

now lets compare the OT forum members as a clique against the elitists. Which group does the defenition clique aply to better?

Nappy wrote:http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=elitism
Ah, but who would admit to being a member of the elite crowd? Oh, right...it was a page or two back when a certain mod and member boasted of being in that group. And so very proud of it, they were...

Better to be the elite than part of the useless lump.

Jbone, Phade, the Mod that you just quoted. The list goes on.

Now that that's established, lets move on to the part where the anime forum gets the axe. Now people are starting to complain about the mindless clutter going on THERE. Pretty soon the forums are going to be invitation only, or shut down completely. I know it.