'concept' videos |:>

General discussion of Anime Music Videos
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Funky-kun
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Post by Funky-kun » Sun May 27, 2007 6:15 am

OK, im the noob of the thread, but anyway I want to state my opinion.

First, i will give an example. Maybe most of you guys haven't heard Magic The Gathering. Its a trading card game. In the game you collect cards and combine them to form a deck with one main idea of winning. Think of the cards in the deck as the music, anime, effects and so on. Well, in MTG there are mainly 3 types of decks : combo, aggro and control, and each one wins in a very different way than the others. Aggro smashes your opponent's face with creatures and races to score more damage faster, control... well controls the game xD and combo pulls out a combination of cards that result in an almost instant win. And there are also combinations like combo/control or aggro/combo...

OMG why did i explain all this? Ah, yes to relate it to amvs. I think AMVs can be separated like MTG decks in 3 main types:

-Videos that aim to visualize every aspect of the song. Examples : the above mentioned Vertigo, Silencio

-Videos that are created as a tribute to the anime and because the creator thinks the anime and the song fit together nicely... linkin ball or naruto park or something similar.(It sounds like I don't like such vids, but it isn't true.. there are good videos in every type for me, for example Koop's Waking Hour)

-Videos that try to create an original story or atmosphere out of the song/anime choice... example : AtomX's Be There or Scintilla's My Evil Alien

and there are also combinations

for example:
visualization + original story = WoTB
visualization + tribute to anime = BTB
tribute to anime + original story = Reflections


I just wanted to say that.. its up to you if you agree or not. My point is there are different types of vidos and different type of people. Not everyone likes visualization videos (or "concept videos"). I completely love them.I like experimental stuff. I like eye candy. I like a video that has and emotional impact on me. And most of all, i like anime. Anime is what makes me watch AMVs. As long as people continue to create anime, there will always be good AMVs. :) (WTF Happy end xD)
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Funky-kun
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Post by Funky-kun » Sun May 27, 2007 6:18 am

Oh, and one more thing..
If you don't like the song of a "visualization" vid => you don't like the vid.
If you don't like the anime of a "tribute" vid => you don't like the vid.
If you don't like the atmosphere (for example romantic or dramatic) of a "original story" vid => you don't like the vid.
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Yok/0
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Post by Yok/0 » Sun May 27, 2007 7:28 am

Funky-kun wrote:OK, im the noob of the thread, but anyway I want to state my opinion.

First, i will give an example. Maybe most of you guys haven't heard Magic The Gathering. Its a trading card game. In the game you collect cards and combine them to form a deck with one main idea of winning. Think of the cards in the deck as the music, anime, effects and so on. Well, in MTG there are mainly 3 types of decks : combo, aggro and control, and each one wins in a very different way than the others. Aggro smashes your opponent's face with creatures and races to score more damage faster, control... well controls the game xD and combo pulls out a combination of cards that result in an almost instant win. And there are also combinations like combo/control or aggro/combo...

OMG why did i explain all this? Ah, yes to relate it to amvs. I think AMVs can be separated like MTG decks in 3 main types:

-Videos that aim to visualize every aspect of the song. Examples : the above mentioned Vertigo, Silencio

-Videos that are created as a tribute to the anime and because the creator thinks the anime and the song fit together nicely... linkin ball or naruto park or something similar.(It sounds like I don't like such vids, but it isn't true.. there are good videos in every type for me, for example Koop's Waking Hour)

-Videos that try to create an original story or atmosphere out of the song/anime choice... example : AtomX's Be There or Scintilla's My Evil Alien

and there are also combinations

for example:
visualization + original story = WoTB
visualization + tribute to anime = BTB
tribute to anime + original story = Reflections


I just wanted to say that.. its up to you if you agree or not. My point is there are different types of vidos and different type of people. Not everyone likes visualization videos (or "concept videos"). I completely love them.I like experimental stuff. I like eye candy. I like a video that has and emotional impact on me. And most of all, i like anime. Anime is what makes me watch AMVs. As long as people continue to create anime, there will always be good AMVs. :) (WTF Happy end xD)
Oh my God...I don't know what scares me most, you playing Magic the Gathering, or Me actually understanding where you were going with it. good demo though :P.

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Post by JaddziaDax » Sun May 27, 2007 8:44 am

Funky-kun wrote:Oh, and one more thing..
If you don't like the song of a "visualization" vid => you don't like the vid.
If you don't like the anime of a "tribute" vid => you don't like the vid.
If you don't like the atmosphere (for example romantic or dramatic) of a "original story" vid => you don't like the vid.
in my opinion thats not necessairly true..

i can appreciate videos to songs i dont like, and even come to like the song in some cases (Fuze's How to Save a Life comes to mind on that one...)

I have found a few videos I like to DBZ (they are very few but they are out there)

I have found some videos change my mind about certain songs/anime... I never wanted to see hellsing till I saw the video someone did to The Cure- Burn (i dont remember where i got it probably off of a p2p)

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neorose
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Post by neorose » Mon May 28, 2007 4:04 am

WOW that took me forever to read to get to this point.
Ok I have been watching AMV's for the better part of 9 years. I have watched the so called evolution of AMV's(and by that I mean I have tracked down 15 year old AMV's done VCR to VCR)to its current state. I have been on staff at AWA in the VAT room for going on 5 years, ive seen thousands of AMV's. Lets start off with the word concept,A concept is an abstract idea or a mental symbol, typically associated with a corresponding representation in language or symbology, that denotes all of the objects in a given category or class of entities, interactions, phenomena, or relationships between them. There now think about that for a min. See when I watch vids like Silencio or even Euphoria I think hu thats like watching a vid on MTV... :shock: thats right MTV if ya watch a lot of vids there you see bands playing,dancers, or other things that correspond to what the lyrics are saying. Then once in a while you see vids that have nothing to do with whats being shown and what the song is about but show of a sense of art to them. See what I mean is this when ya watch Silencio it has nothing to do with the original anime its just a girl in front of a piano the scenes move back and forth with the flow of the music with some pretty sparkles and flashes its artsy. I remember watching Euphoria years ago and I didnt like it cause its didnt show what the anime was about, but later realized that was not the point of the vid. I also do hate amvs that do a re-telling of a anime in an amv its like watching a fan fiction in an amv format. But there are vids like ukms[z] : Reflections that is not really a re-telling but taking 2 different anime and making them seem like the 2 where from the same thing or at least combined the 2 to make a flowing and heart wrenching vid. MAD's are fun to watch have been for the last few years but they start to all look the same, which is what I think KOOP is trying to say, that you will see a trend setter then you will see hundreds of vids that will look the same then after a bit ya see a new vid that shatters what the last hundred did and so on. See on the vat staff we had a saying for some action vids "boring action" and by that I mean you feel that after watching amvs for soo long you feel that even though you have never seen the anime or heard the song being used you feel that you have seen the vid cause it follows the style and feel that the last hundred vids ya saw already. But then we get these awesome vids that make us all shut up and watch and some times give a hell ya. All amvs are art they all have a concept to them. you say that you need to have an original concept to make a good amv..no you dont, see I look at AMV creators like I do Impressionist, they take already made subject mater and create unusual visual angles to them. with the help of cheaper and cheaper powerful home computers regular people with ideas are able to create unusual visual angles to the anime world. I watch amvs for many reasons, I see anime in them that I havent seen and if the vid moves me the right way I might go out and get it, some make me laugh, some make me cry, and some make me want to dance. Lets all take a moment to think about this, there are soo many people out there to put others down because the dont like what they see but to some what they see is art. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. so go out and watch amvs learn from what others do and see what you can do thats different, or ground breaking.

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Post by JudgeHolden » Mon May 28, 2007 8:51 am

JaddziaDax wrote:
Funky-kun wrote:Oh, and one more thing..
If you don't like the song of a "visualization" vid => you don't like the vid.
If you don't like the anime of a "tribute" vid => you don't like the vid.
If you don't like the atmosphere (for example romantic or dramatic) of a "original story" vid => you don't like the vid.
in my opinion thats not necessairly true..

i can appreciate videos to songs i dont like, and even come to like the song in some cases (Fuze's How to Save a Life comes to mind on that one...)

I have found a few videos I like to DBZ (they are very few but they are out there)

I have found some videos change my mind about certain songs/anime... I never wanted to see hellsing till I saw the video someone did to The Cure- Burn (i dont remember where i got it probably off of a p2p)
But, you my girl, are an exception to the rule. For the average AMV viewer, who we do not see much of in the forums, what Funky said holds true.

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Post by Nappy » Mon May 28, 2007 9:38 am

Koopiskeva wrote:
Douggie wrote:
Koop wrote:Short version: Koop doesn't find "artsy" videos appealing that don't have a clear point or focus.
Fixed.
Koopiskeva wrote:No, it's perfectly fine to do that.. it's not like the definition of a classic AMV is some kind of holy grail that all editors should strive for. It's when people view theses concept videos as some kind of 'new path' for AMVs or saying that they give 'more substance' than AMVs is what irks me. It's just a different way of using the sources. It's not anymore a new path as what people already do with other mediums.. trust me, I can make some random floating things on screen, with a weird kind of flow/synch and give some vague little reference to some word... is that creativity? No. Creativity should have a focus, a clear focus, to be deemed something that is worthwhile. I can think of dozens and dozens of ways to use footage in a way it has never been done in an AMV, as most can, but that doesn't mean it's creative unless it's actually cohesive and makes a point.
I don't really have anything else to say... |:>

PS. I never said that these videos weren't AMVs.. I just don't get the appeal.
Hey, you were the one that was getting me to watch some amv you loved, that just had a bunch of effects and random anime stills in the background. I didn't like it cuz it looked like my winamp player was playing over some blurry anime wallpapers. The anime in that vid had no point being there, but you really liked it So, now you don't get the appeal? Stop being jaded :P

People like to argue alot about what's considered art or not, but really most things are art. For something to be considered art, it only needs to be intentionally displayed in some form and to get a reaction from someone other than the creator. Even if that is a good or a bad reaction, as long as it makes one it's considered art (and yes, I know the irony of my studio name). So all amvs on here art (unless no one watched/reacted to them), taking various pictures of statues in a art show and framing those pictures to show in a another art show is art, the smiley face I made outta ketchup and showed my friends was freaking art :O

Good art and bad art however are 100% subjective (example the video I mentioned earlier) :P Good luck finding some form of art that everyone in the world likes, even the Godfather gets 1's on imdb.

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neorose
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Post by neorose » Mon May 28, 2007 11:50 am

PARAGRAAAAHFF.
sorry it was 5 am when I posted that,i was sleepy.

Look effects in a vid are not a bad thing as long as they have a point and are not over used. In most cases people find a new effect to use and its like a one trick pony through the hole vid and it gets annoying. There are several people on VAT staff at AWA that are totally into the very artsy kinda amvs and I sit there some times and am like I dont get it.
I think that people should just make what they want to make and not worry about what others think. If someone says you used too many effects in your vid or too little fine everyone looks at things differently. I think that people should make statements like "AAAwww all these kids now and days just want to use effects and have no point to there vids", so what its a crappy vid but I dont think that AMV's are doomed or there is no more good anime out there to make good amv's.
Also I think that everything that has needed to be said about this topic has been and unless someone has a more constructive thing to say that what has already been said I say that everyone needs to get back to work making there amv's and have some fun.

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Greggus1
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Post by Greggus1 » Mon May 28, 2007 12:35 pm

neorose wrote:
PARAGRAAAAHFF.
sorry it was 5 am when I posted that,i was sleepy.
No sweat dude, but still no paragraphs in your last post :P

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Douggie
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Post by Douggie » Mon May 28, 2007 1:12 pm

Come on, Koop, have you actually read my post? The point I'm trying to make is that the what you call artsy is more because for you it's "unconventional" way of storytelling/editing rather than because it's not making a point. There are people, minds and cultures who like to tell things different, to have a focus on something different than usual, who like to challenge you as a viewer and like to make you think. They don't have your appeal or you yourself don't see the point in them, then fine, I don't mind, but please don't say they don't make a point, just because they're told in a way you're not used to or just because you don't get them.

I think Nappy hits the nail with his argument, I think those "arthouse" videos actually have more point than most the action/dance/drama/whatever AMVs most people here like.

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