'concept' videos |:>

[Koopiskeva]

Nappy,

I don't really know what video you're referring to so.. umm..

Douggie,

I don't know how many times I need to repeat this...

No, it's perfectly fine to do that.. it's not like the definition of a classic AMV is some kind of holy grail that all editors should strive for. It's when people view theses concept videos as some kind of 'new path' for AMVs or saying that they give 'more substance' than AMVs is what irks me. It's just a different way of using the sources. It's not anymore a new path as what people already do with other mediums.. trust me, I can make some random floating things on screen, with a weird kind of flow/synch and give some vague little reference to some word... is that creativity? No. Creativity should have a focus, a clear focus, to be deemed something that is worthwhile. I can think of dozens and dozens of ways to use footage in a way it has never been done in an AMV, as most can, but that doesn't mean it's creative unless it's actually cohesive and makes a point.

Storytelling isn't something I touched on.. cause yea.. sure you can have an unconventional way of telling a story.. that's fine.. but if the video doesn't make any sense anyway, then what's the point?

Here'.. I'll go into specifics.. in that Vertigo video where some people say they 'get more substance' out of it than a traditional AMV.. the video starts out with a definition of the word vertigo:

"Erroneous sensation of the movement of surrounding objects relative to the body or of the body in relation to surrounding objects"

So I watch this video expecting to see this title to have relation on the video.. and what do I see? A bunch of random imagery of some guy with masking, zooms and shakes... sure that could very well be how the editor sees how 'Vertigo' might feel to someone and that's perfectly fine... but how is that any more 'substance' than any other AMV? Like I said, it's just a different take on how to use footage and could have easily been done with other footage, and would've even been more successful if the footage was shot/created for the video itself.

I never said that the videos I had linked didn't have a point (although they are pretty close to it in my opinion). I was merely trying to drive home a point to Crackerz about how pretentious videos can be and how there are people who will perceive some kind of point to 'arthouse' videos simply because they are unconventional and abstract, especially when the author is vague about it in it's description.

I think Nappy hits the nail with his argument, I think those "arthouse" videos actually have more point than most the action/dance/drama/whatever AMVs most people here like.

I can make an 'arthouse' video. EASILY. I can make some obscure reference to something and be vague about it. I guarantee that someone somewhere will see it and be like 'OMG THAT HAS WAY MORE SUBSTANCE THAN CONVENTIONAL STUFF BECAUSE ITS UNCONVENTIONAL.' No... it doesn't. It's crap. Pretentious, stupid, crap. It's made for the reason of being different just to be different.

However, this whole thing really goes away from the first post I made anyway.. I didn't want to get into this whole 'digital art' thing.. I was merely talking about those videos as examples in relation to AMVs. And in that respect, I've already said what I wanted to say.. that I don't see their appeal as AMVs (in classic AMV terms).. and that I don't see their point in using anime at all, hence though they're technically AMVs, I don't get their appeal and I feel that it's quite arrogant for someone to say that they have 'more substance' or have 'more point' than than regular AMVs. It's different and unconventional, but that's it. Don't give me this 'more substance' nonsense... you only feel that way cause it uses things differently and its abstract, which doesn't translate into 'more anything.'

[Dark-Krystal]

About Conceptual AMVs.... It depends what means "Concept"?. I think "The Race" by Hito is a really awesome conceptual video, because it's original, the idea is clear, and the video deserves it. So, I like this kind of conceptual AMVs. But for myself Concept = General Idea (Into an AMV anyway). I find pretentious (and it's especially true for the french AMVmakers at the moment) the long descriptions introducing their new conceptual videos. The sentences like "I'm inspired by my own Nightmares, my life, my lover, my family, people who have no food and no home ..." make me laugh. Most of the time, these AWESOME IDEAS give an AMV with "cries, cries, cries,girls who cry into the hands of her lovers and all the Dramatic Scenes which are present in the anime chosen". It's why I Find the Term "Concept" really ridiculous into AMVs. I think we just need to find a Mood, A general Atmosphere, and let's Go. Don't care about a storyline. I Hate the comments like "You don't follow the History of the Anime" so it's RANDOM. I just answer to these comment that we don't make Movies, but just little videos . For myself, It doesn't disturb me to Edit on an anime I have never seen. I just search an anime which has a good graphic design, which has a particular Mood and Charismatic Characters. But it's personnal...
Well, Concept doesn't appeal me too.

Sorry for my ideas which aren't in a logical order and My English, maybe a little deficient

[Nappy]

meh, I can't find the vid. It was from like before or during your work on euphoria, it had some random anime footage and some techno type song, none of which left an impression on me :P It had a bunch of ripple effects to the beats and what not. You mighta left a OP on it, so you'd find it easier than me.

I think Nappy hits the nail with his argument, I think those "arthouse" videos actually have more point than most the action/dance/drama/whatever AMVs most people here like.

Not really saying they have more of a point than other videos, drama vids usually have a pretty good meaning. Alot of "artsy" videos, movies, paintings, whatever usually have some important meaning to the artist. However often no one understands it except the artist themselves. Some ppl will walk away with their own unique meaning/feeling and that's a good thing. There are of course some ppl that just make something look artsy with no intentional meaning behind it. Just making something that looks interesting and moody, and hope whoever sees it will make up their own meaning to it. Even if something is created that way (and I would frown upon such creations as well), if others appreciate it then really it served the same purpose as the moody artist that was always misunderstood :P

Storytelling isn't something I touched on.. cause yea.. sure you can have an unconventional way of telling a story.. that's fine.. but if the video doesn't make any sense anyway, then what's the point?

Full Circle? :P
http://www.animemusicvideos.org/phpBB/v ... ht=#221596

"when it comes down to it, just enjoy the video.. many people seem to have lost that ability and be too critical of other people's work. It's a hobby."

AMV's are not serious business :O! It's nice to have a story or a focus to a vid, but hardly a req. Making it a req. hurts amvs as a whole rather than helps them. Less people would experiment and feel restricted. These are vids are usually only 3-5 mins long, they can experiment alot more w/o losing the interest of the viewer, than a 2h movie can.

Even the guidelines we have now are restricting. I don't even know why everyone's so obsessed with beat syncs honestly. Sure I like them too, but they aren't really used much outside of amvs. I've never seen award shows rate film/music/books/etc. on replay value :P There's alot of great movies I've only seen once, and have no urge to see again. I've seen deuce bigalow alot more than I've seen Shawshank Redemption. Hardly means I liked it more.

[ZephyrStar]

People will make what they're gonna make.

I for one really appreciate it when somebody takes something we've all seen and does something new with it. (Nightowl's Firewall) (DK's Dirge in that we've all seen Bebop, but not quite like this) Not that these are "concept" videos, they might be.

And I like effects/arthouse vids that are just fun to watch. If the thing is visually interesting and fun to watch, does it need a meaning or a story? Maybe, maybe not. I can rant for hours about CG in movies VS storyline in movies and how some films are just blatant CG/effects masturbation, and how the movie falls apart despite the millions spent to create the CG if it doesn't have an awesome story. And these films still make tons of money because the general public wants a quick "oooh" and doesn't really care about story. Same kinda thing applies to AMV's. People will make stuff just for an "oooh" factor from the general .org, but then there are some people who just make stuff. CG/effects masturbation can be fun, kids! It all just goes back to a person's tastes. I love MADs for example. Lots of people don't.

I think also a lot of people cannot step back from the "this is the way an AMV should be" and look at a vid in purely artistic terms. I mean, if I drew a picture of a stick figure, and then said "OK, artistically, describe this" a lot of people would go "oh, it's a stick figure." Well, what if I cropped it off the page so it was at an angle and you could'nt see the whole body? Artistically it's just a few lines. Some black lines on some white paper. Maybe there's good negative space. Maybe the piece is weighted in an interesting way. Not really a drawing of a stick figure, but just a drawing that is visually pleasing. For some people, it works, for others, it's just a stick figure.

...we don't make Movies, but just little videos...

Why DON'T we make movies? Why can't a vid be epic? Maybe long for a music video, but Fantasia is a long music video. Sky's the limit. Or...screw the sky, there is no limit. I'm gonna make a movie...after a bit.

I think people would do well to be open to all forms and kinds of videos. You learn quite a bit from stuff you are uncomfortable with.

Sorry if this is maybe a bit off topic and kinda ranty, but yeah

[Kisanzi]

Hmmm...as I said, I don't mind these types of videos but I do have to question the reason people believe conceptual vids, like the examples posted, have more substance than a normal video. By having a loose, unfocused, ambiguous and esoteric relevance to one word or idea gives more content than telling a story, conveying character's emotions, or capturing the essence of a song or anime? I can't say I quite agree with that. These vids are original but only go as far as those who watch them look into the "concept". Just because a video is free to interpretation doesn't give it more substance.

In an amusing sidenote relevant to the topic of conceptual art. I remember a few years back in one of my art classes having this same dispute with conceptual art in physical form. An example of how ridiculously nearsided some "artsy" people see things can be found HERE. Basically, its an article about an art award, with roughly a $20,000 prize, for conceptual artwork that was awarded to an artist who merely stuck 2 light bulbs to a wall in a giant workspace and had them click on and off every 5 seconds; whereas real artists who made paintings, murals and art displays and setups for the exposition got the shaft. If you read the article, you'll find that the judges deemed the concept of an empty room as "art" that held more meaning and substance than any of the other exhibits and was an expression of the clutter of everyday life and...yadayadayada. This example merely represents the arguments against conceptual art in any medium and how lack of focus or vague implications can be blissfully amazing to some with "articulate" minds and completely devoid of value to others.

Just some food for thought...>.>

[Fall_Child42]

Hmmm...as I said, I don't mind these types of videos but I do have to question the reason people believe conceptual vids, like the examples posted, have more substance than a normal video. By having a loose, unfocused, ambiguous and esoteric relevance to one word or idea gives more content than telling a story, conveying character's emotions, or capturing the essence of a song or anime? I can't say I quite agree with that. These vids are original but only go as far as those who watch them look into the "concept". Just because a video is free to interpretation doesn't give it more substance.

In an amusing sidenote relevant to the topic of conceptual art. I remember a few years back in one of my art classes having this same dispute with conceptual art in physical form. An example of how ridiculously nearsided some "artsy" people see things can be found HERE. Basically, its an article about an art award, with roughly a $20,000 prize, for conceptual artwork that was awarded to an artist who merely stuck 2 light bulbs to a wall in a giant workspace and had them click on and off every 5 seconds; whereas real artists who made paintings, murals and art displays and setups for the exposition got the shaft. If you read the article, you'll find that the judges deemed the concept of an empty room as "art" that held more meaning and substance than any of the other exhibits and was an expression of the clutter of everyday life and...yadayadayada. This example merely represents the arguments against conceptual art in any medium and how lack of focus or vague implications can be blissfully amazing to some with "articulate" minds and completely devoid of value to others.

Just some food for thought...>.>

Those lightbulbs were obviously a comedy piece...

Nancy nancy nancy,

Always down on the comedy. |:<

[Prodigi]

Those lightbulbs were obviously a comedy piece...

Nancy nancy nancy,

Always down on the comedy. |:<

D-d-d-d-dying breed.

[JaddziaDax]

wheres the article about the guy with the blenders and the fish... or that chick who kills animals to take photos of them?

[Sub0]

wow! this thread suddenly got very cruel lol... I tend to take the cruel side... what a surprise though ;p.

I have a video nobody seems to like, does that make it a concept video???

[BasharOfTheAges]

Modern art is like that though... You just have to be good at keeping a straight face and acting "deep" while you're pulling shit out of your ass. Being able to bullshit with poorly defined buzzwords on the fly is great too. When you think about it, it's a lot like marketing.