AMV Salad 4: TV Dinner (next stop - Nekocon)

[Honou_Miko]

Spoiler :

...First of all, starting off with "since men are logic-based" is insinuating that women can't think logically. I don't know if that's what you meant, but, by process of logical reasoning, placing rational thinking on one gender places the opposite on the other.

Just saying.

As far as sexual tension between the two guys goes, my point is not that there is or isn't - my point is that the anime makes it ambiguous. I have no problem with the view that they weren't attracted to each other, but I also have no problem with the view that they were. And I agree - I can't STAND it when fangirls make the entire cast gay. This happens a LOT with Death Note... and honestly, the only potential I see is for those two, and again: speculation. For example, I don't understand why Mello/Matt is so popular. They were roommates. So what? The same way you're able to give your friend a back massage without any undertones. It's a totally different situation. My point with the foot massage scene is the fact that directors chose to portray it this way - change of art style, glistening male bodies in the rain? If you're not wired to pick up on that stuff, it's understandable not to notice, but there is a VERY clear change in style, and only for that scene. And they could have easily gotten a Bible reference across without all the grunting. It's much less about the act and much MORE about the way it was portrayed. So don't think I'm going to accuse you of being possibly gay because you helped your friend with his back. I would assume that you weren't accompanied by a soft piano score and that neither of you had animators drawing you in classic bishounen style and moaning.

Fangirls should never have made you hate gay people. O_o Yaoi itself is fetishized for women, and most gay men think it's silly. I've laughed at implausible lesbian scenes in porn, and known guys who get off on them. I have also known guys who pick up on some possible implications for lesbian undertones in characters that I've never considered to be a plausible pair, the same way I'm picking up on undertones in Death Note that you disagree with. It's never made me hate lesbians. I'm sorry if one person managed to make you irrationally judgmental.

I'm not quite sure what you're getting at with "here is where the male mind differs." Do women prefer drama? I sure don't. I don't see where there's a conflict of interest here. "Friends with benefits" is a term often used by people who are afraid of commitment, but that reasoning is silly. I sure wouldn't want to be friends with someone who only spent time with me if it was convenient for them. "Friends with benefits" is what a real relationship IS. Why is a healthy relationship not an ideal for women as well? You're making some huge generalizations, and pretty much insulting an entire gender here.

I don't disagree with you on how Light viewed Misa. At all. There's really no need to assume that I'm trying to advocate Misa's level of impulsiveness; I only implied that I had sympathy for her situation.

It's interesting, though, what you said about the "'what's wrong' 'nothing'" deal. I've seen men do that (hell, I grew up with that in the house). Either gender can be passive-aggressive. But did it ever occur to you that women KNOW that men tend to drop the subject and move on? Maybe they're attempting to do the same, because, news flash: women don't like drama either. If they do, they're histrionic, emotionally masochistic, or both. I know that when I get into fights, I do try to let it go, because I'm afraid of making a big deal. Often, I'm able to breathe for a few minutes and move on, realizing it's not a big deal. Sometimes that ends up being impossible, so eventually it gets discussed and resolved. It's not always passive-aggressive bullshit; it's often an attempt to avoid conflict.

I'm sorry to veer so far off topic, but the last thing I wanted to do was pull the "nothing's wrong" act.

That would be illogical.

[Gaelstrom]

You may wanna put some 'spoiler' tags around that with an edit ^^ No need to bring everyone else off topic with us.

To continue:

Spoiler :

Sorry, seems I'll have to explain a bit more clearly.

There are certain realities about both sexes that must be accepted. I'm well aware women can use logic, but they are far more emotional based because it's wired into their biology more directly. I was speaking in direct terms to bring up the dynamic between Misa and Light. Think of it in this way, if masculine is the spirit, and feminine is the soul, the spirit is the one that is always in action, the soul is like a more stable monolith and they have a sort of orbital dynamic. To always be in action is masculine energy. To be present, in the moment, is the feminine energy for lack of a better description. Both men and women have masculine and feminine, and they combine to form what happens in any given moment. It has nothing to do with the sex of the person. When a woman moves forward in her life and seeks to further herself, she's using her masculine side to be in balance with her feminine. When guys take moments of introspection and consideration and compassion, they're using their feminine side.

I admit I don't remember which scene you're mentioning with foot massage or rain, but I know what tactic they used. It's the same everywhere, tapping into the latent homosexuality in everyone basically. There is a certain attraction to the same sex as well because of the familiarity. Using that aspect in people with scenes like that is very subliminal, and people who aren't aware or imbalanced sexually tend to find those scenes much more literal rather than a guy being compassionate in his feminine side for a moment, which is rare in our culture. Light also did it as a tactic. It's not chauvinistic when I say guys know how guys think better than women ever will, and by then you knew Light never did anything without considering the ramifications. L never revealed anything of himself either, so Light doing something humbling in front of L also offered the potential for a twist for his perspective on him. The reason I know with every fiber of my being that there's nothing there is because the entire story is written as two generals facing off in a chess match. Everything was a tactic, a feint or a circumvention. Even if there was a scene of one of them walking around naked in front of the other showing no reaction, it would have been a tactic unless the mangaka insinuated it. Every guy can tell you there was no insinuation at all.

As for hating gay people because of the stupid girl, I realized it had manifested itself in a curve-ball fashion after a couple years of exploration. It wasn't about being gay that I hated, as I have several gay friends. It was about being FAKE. The guys with blatant lisps who just act pathetic, the guys who prance around as if being gay makes them special, the girls who make every single little feminine act a guy does into gayness, it is maddening and I very much want to physically inject some reality into those situation (punch someone in the face ^^) It took a while in my teenage years to identify that subtle variation in logic, but when I did it cleared a lot up. My bullshit-o-meter had gotten extremely strong and I'd collapsed 'being gay' with 'being fake.'

And 'friends with benefits' is not a commitment even if many women try to define it as such. Again, it's the female nature around sex vs. the male nature of sex. The reality is that biologically men are not and never will be monogamous, and marriage is one of the most dangerous creations for a committed relationship there is. What I mean by that is there's nothing that ruins the idea of being committed to someone by your own choice than giving away your ability to choose to a governing body. Men are in a constant battle with what's expected of them by our ass-backwards culture (not really referencing monogamy when I say that, but many other things), and their natural biological imperatives, yet we're treated as villains because of what we are many times. That's not to say they should be assholes about wanting a bunch of women, nobody really likes those guys. The psychology of it is kind of sad. Many men feel cornered by this dichotomy of expectation and the reality of their base instincts. And cornered prey tend to lash out, that is why such reactive extremes occur much of the time in reaction to feeling cornered, and most men aren't even aware of why. If it became accepted that men are a certain way and women are a certain way and expectation were removed, you'd find something a bit counter intuitive: things would balance out rather than go out of control.

As for men on the 'what's wrong' 'nothing' thing? If you saw the man saying that too a woman, it's because he didn't want the drama of the situation. Very few men truly do have an emotional involvement in things if they cannot rationalize it. That's not to say they don't have emotional things that get to them, most men just aren't very explorative of their feminine side (which is changing these days thankfully). The only thing wrong to them is someone trying to blame them for something without explaining the situation. In this regard, from the male perspective, most women prefer drama rather than solutions. For example, a female friend of mine actually claimed that 'sometimes a woman just has to be angry and you leave her alone.' Psychologically, that's complete horse crap. If you're angry about something, someone logical can look at you and go "What's wrong?" and if you say "I don't know." then will start rationalizing it for you by going "Something or someone at work?" What happens commonly though is women want to feel justified in being angry and stuck in their head about something rather than actually find solutions to things. Obviously this isn't all women, but I know you yourself have seen it somewhere. It comes from a very basic inherent knowledge that both sides have: where there is understanding, no fear can exist, and all negative emotions are based on fear. People don't do this to avoid conflict as you said, it's much deeper than that, they do it to avoid feeling bad. If they had the mental fortitude to realize they feel bad for a reason, they'd take action and seek the reason to understand and 'conquor' it, which is the epitome of the masculine. That is the key reason women are irrational to men, because almost literally, the feminine IS irrational in the face of fear.

[Squancho]

...I like cheese.

[Gaelstrom]

Dude! Fuck yeah, cheese is the shit! Get me some Mozzarella and some Sharp Cheddar on summa dem fuggin' crackers man! And don't forget Monterey Jack on some nachos with some epic salsa! That shit is awesome! And Provolone? Dude, don' get me started!

[Honou_Miko]

Will do.

Spoiler :

Wow. Okay, Henry Higgins.

I do know exactly what you're getting at with the "masculine" and "feminine" side of people; I just have a problem calling it that. It's demeaning to both genders. Is it that difficult to just base it on logic vs. emotion, rather than male vs. female? Putting a gender on a way of thinking basically is perpetuating the view of "men never feel anything and should be able to endure anything that hits them" and "women can't endure anything and need special treatment because they can't think." Yes, men are on the whole different than women, but labeling isn't going to do much to help either gender understand the other.

A girl I know said to me recently, "you know? I just realized, men don't bond by talking about feelings. They bond by having fun with you." She's 22 years old and she's just realizing this. For that matter, it irked me because I've bonded with men by having fun. If a discussion of feelings happens to come up, then great - that is also a great way to bond. But it's extremely daunting to start off a conversation by trying to be "deep and emotional" for no reason. But yeah, you are right, I have seen the drama-loving bullshit: this girl pretty much embodies that.

And yes, you clearly don't remember the scene. It's in episode 25, and it was L using the tactics on Light, not the other way around. Light was caught completely off-guard. Of course I know they were tactics. It was L laying on the guilt thick. And please don't say "every guy can tell you" because I have spoken to several men who admit that scene was fishy. I tried to explain that there was no CLEAR insinuation. The animators themselves were using ambiguity to appeal to a wide audience. It's meant to be taken in multiple ways, depending on what the viewer wants out of it. It sure as hell worked; I don't know if I've ever seen so many female fans of a series that was originally supposed to be shonen. The point is: nothing in that series is meant to be black and white. That's the point of it. If evil were such a clear-cut concept, the series would have nothing going for it. And I'm surprised that a fellow AMV maker would be so dismissive of the concept of interpretation.

And I can see why the fakeness would turn you off. I hate it too.

You seem to have missed my point with the whole "friends with benefits" thing. My point was that friendship is a commitment... I hope. There's a reason the term "fair-weather friend" exists. If that committed friendship also has a sexual side, then it's a relationship. Sometimes people don't stay friends forever, and that's normal. But if your definition of friendship is different, then it's a moot point and not worth discussing.

And how does the idea of needing time to cool off from anger not make any psychological sense? Anger is a strong emotion and it can cloud rational thinking. If you've tried to force a woman to explain what's wrong while they're still at the peak of their anger, and they've lashed out at you because of it, then perhaps this has contributed to your view of female = irrational. I wish you wouldn't be condescending about the matter; it's really no different than those friends of yours that hang up the phone or sign off, and are good to go the next day.

Monogamy has tradeoffs, just like polygamy does. Like you said, people don't want to feel bad. If the security of trusting one person feels better, then people should choose monogamy. If one feels confined in such a situation, then it's ridiculous to try and force yourself into an uncomfortable scenario. My personal view is that I am extremely comfortable with monogamy, and I also accept that it is natural to be attracted to other people outside of a relationship. If we're going to take away the emotional aspect of marital commitment, it's like a business contract. If two people see that joining forces will be efficient, beneficial, and functional for what they have planned in life, it doesn't seem unnatural to me to take advantage of it. Of course, there are stipulations - each contract is different. Some marriages are open. Most marriages are based on the agreement that each party will stay faithful to their partner. It's a larger sacrifice for some than it is for others, but a contract is a contract, and the same way you wouldn't go against company policy if you want to stay hired, you wouldn't go back on an agreement to stay faithful, even if it's tempting. It's as simple as that. If you're not willing to make follow policy, then don't apply for the job. If you personally are not comfortable with it, then you shouldn't feel pressured to do it. You probably won't even have to worry about this, as a man - seeing as men, the "naturally polygamous," are traditionally the ones who make proposals (imagine that?). There's no need to dismiss a lifestyle that has worked for millions of people for thousands of years simply because you're not comfortable with it for your own life.

There are a lot of things I think it's clear I can't open your eyes to, but for the future, I would advise against using only your own life experience as a basis for how the rest of the world works. I find it extremely presumptuous that you're trying to explain situations I've experienced. I'm only 23, and I accept that there's a lot more to life than what I've experienced so far. My views may change, and so may yours. The same way you realized later on that you didn't actually hate gay people, you may realize that although some women ARE irrational, on the whole, people (male or female) are only as irrational as you are reluctant to listen.

My fiancé and I have been together since we were seventeen years old. We have both changed a lot over the past six years, but we've found a bond that works for us, and we have been able to grow together, not away from each other, as we begin to find ourselves and settle into who we really are as people. Accepting that we will continue to change, I realize that growing together will be easy at times, and difficult at times. But again, looking at it sans "irrational emotion," a contract is a contract. We've agreed to it. As you said yourself, where there is understanding, no fear can exist.

Also, cheese is quite delicious.

[Honou_Miko]

...I like cheese.

Feta cheese is especially delicious....

ON SALAD

[Squancho]

I wanna make a flyer with this or something like it. Just a bunch of 4"x6" half-pages to hand out and promote us.

[Honou_Miko]

Awesome! I'll help distribute if you need!

[SammySamaProductions]

Quoted Image converted to link:
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak- ... 6519_n.jpg

I wanna make a flyer with this or something like it. Just a bunch of 4"x6" half-pages to hand out and promote us.

I SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO wanna print one out for myself...*save as* clicks folder *is now my new desktop ^_^ Pure golden epicness

[moonbunnychan]

At Anime USA this year a video that won was to was to The Firebird Suite....it was ten minutes long too. To be totally honest I was kinda surprised it won...I was getting kind of bored with it in it's long-ness, despite being really well done, but obviously I was in the minority.