Some Videos No Longer Available [Follow-up]

[littlebobcat]

Phade, I know you've already answered so many questions and I thought maybe I should ask this PM or email to you but then I thought other people might be feeling the same way I do. So I am posting a reply to make this even longer. Since this happened with one of the most used artists on this site, Evanescence, what guarantee do we have it won't come to the attention of other groups widely used on this site such as Linkin' Park, System of a Down, Rammstein, Hoobestank, Disturbed, Nightwish, etc. It seems like Windup Records' lawyer(s) understood a little that we meant no harm to the artists and that's why they went about taking care of the copywrite law the way they did. But what'll happen if one of the other label's lawyer isn't that nice? What can we as AMV creators do to keep this site going as long as possible? I know donating is one way but are there any other actions you'd suggest? I plan to donate once I get a little spending cash because I don't want anything to hurt this site (probably use some of my Christmas money--yes I love the site that much--I's consider it a gift to myself) Thank you so much for all you do.

[littlebobcat]

Phade, I know you've already answered so many questions and I thought maybe I should ask this PM or email to you but then I thought other people might be feeling the same way I do. So I am posting a reply to make this even longer. Since this happened with one of the most used artists on this site, Evanescence, what guarantee do we have it won't come to the attention of other groups widely used on this site such as Linkin' Park, System of a Down, Rammstein, Hoobestank, Disturbed, Nightwish, etc. It seems like Windup Records' lawyer(s) understood a little that we meant no harm to the artists and that's why they went about taking care of the copyright law the way they did. But what'll happen if one of the other labels’ lawyers isn't that nice? What can we as AMV creators do to keep this site going as long as possible? I know donating is one way but are there any other actions you'd suggest? I plan to donate once I get a little spending cash because I don't want anything to hurt this site (probably use some of my Christmas money--yes I love the site that much--I'd consider it a gift to myself) Thank you so much for all you do.

P.S. For all of you planning to boycott, I'm sorry, I plan on getting Evanescence's next CD, so I refuse to join you. I'm not trying to provoke a fight--I want to make that clear right here. It's just, for me, this band's songs make my brain tingle and my creative juices bubble. Their music takes my breath away. I had to stop in the middle of shopping to listen to "Missing" on a demo stereo, and I'm a girl who doesn't get distracted from her shopping that easily.

[trythil]

I must admit, Im suprised with you Nestor. If we had more new members that are as smart and well spoken as you, this site would be a much better place.

Well, we'd certainly be able to get these sorts of questions cleared up quickly.

Then again, you could do that for yourself by reading copyright law, which is readily available on the Web. U.S. copyright law, in particular, is quite accessible at http://www.copyright.gov/title17/ .

It's actually a pretty good read, and it makes you wonder about other ways we could solve this so that it works out for all parties involved. But, you know, they have The Power and we don't, so I must be totally off my rocker. :roll:

But like im saying, like othes said, if we used more music without hefty copywriting or any at all, which I havent seen much of, we may see some good AMV's that wont cause as much trouble with the law.

The Creative Commons (especially the ccMixter) and Magnatune are good places to start.

[Illia Sadri]

You know, I have always seen it as a matter of time before something like this happened. And I want to see just how much longer remains on the org in terms of being able to host anything on a major label.

Boycotting will do nothing. Do you think a handful of people not buying a mainstream album makes any impact?

The fact is this fandom has been fortunate thus far. For the most part it has remained under the radar of the RIAA and the anime licence holders have accepted them as free advertising for their products.

And frankly, conisdering the number of awful amv's for Evenescence and Creed, I can care less for the most part. Maybe the loss of the org will result in higher quality since cons wouold be the main viewing place and people will be more eager to spend time on a video rather than finish 5 videos of random clips in three weeks so they can upload and get their couple seconds of fame

[aoi_neko]

X_rex30, Yeah, it's pretty obvious that the Meagatokyo people incline more towards the position of the record labels than the people here do, but wouldn't it be kind of astonishing if we didn't lean more to our own side of the issue than anyone else does?

Having read the thread there, they actually took a fairly nuanced and intelligent view of it before the flames started. Omoikane (her?)self, who was one of the people arguing with you had said upthread that

"Likewise a significant defense can be made for some AMVs along the same lines as far as the music is concerned."

and dm was very close to my own feelings in saying

"As an AMV creator, you could respond to a cease and desist letter with a reply that says: "fair use". If you didn't hear back from them, then I imagine you can keep distributing. If they say: "no it ain't", then you have to decide how far you want to carry it."

Maybe Yagami is overboard, but then again it's hard to tell how (she? I'm just guessing from the avatars) would have reacted to a coooler and more purely intellectual engagement of the question. As it is, most people don't react well to being shoved.

Not to flame on you, x_rex30, really I'm not trying to. It's just that lots of us are a bit emotional at the moment, and so we may not be in the best frame of mind to go other places and discuss it calmly.

[Knowname]

lol, I just had a funny thought... the perp who turned us in was more likeley some concerned parent watching some hentai mv to 'Wake me up inside' or something lol.

And frankly, conisdering the number of awful amv's for Evenescence and Creed, I can care less for the most part. Maybe the loss of the org will result in higher quality since cons wouold be the main viewing place and people will be more eager to spend time on a video rather than finish 5 videos of random clips in three weeks so they can upload and get their couple seconds of fame

also maybe this was the bands' intention -_- I mean, I hate that Phade had to tip toe through the mine feild like he did, but I wouldn't mind if all bands did this (sans the local thing... say only allow the finalists in cons to be locally hosted...).

[x_rex30]

Not to flame on you, x_rex30, really I'm not trying to. It's just that lots of us are a bit emotional at the moment, and so we may not be in the best frame of mind to go other places and discuss it calmly.

Yeah.. I didn't like to admit it but I guess this whole thing has gotten the best of me. I've been acting hot headed all day.

[jehuty1982]

well thats just great
i bearly started makeing amvs (only 2 out ) and one of them is gone thats 50%
lol
well i hope this isnt a treand
there is some real talent hear and for many this site is the only place were they can showcase their talen
im alwayes amazed at how many of the users here can realy make a song come to life in a way their origanl vidoes never could
when amv artist make their vids the songs almost feel as if they were created for that vid
i am not alone when i say that this site is one of the best anime websites out their and i hope that it can remain that way for years to come

i truly hope nothing else comes of this

[Nestor]

I must admit, Im suprised with you Nestor. If we had more new members that are as smart and well spoken as you, this site would be a much better place.

I don't come here for a reason. I make it a point not to be here. And, as soon as this gets shuffled off with more pressing concerns, I'll be gone again. I only came back here to get an idea on how you all were handling it. I may not like the place, or what it's turned into, but there's still a few people I hold respect for here. I was more interested in hearing their opinions. The brute irony is that I think that they're all gone, and in their place I see a bunch of ... no.

I never expected to see this level of outrage. When I started making AMV's some 8 years back, along with the other members of Black Triad Studios, I asked people who were more knowledgable about this regarding copyright laws. Back then, Napster was just coming out. They told me straight up that sooner or later there could be a crackdown. Back then, AMVs had almost literally exploded as people saw the first videos and immediately saw the potential for their own creations. I figured that the crackdown would be sooner.

I expected people to be hurt. I myself am upset. As I own and operate a website + forum, I went ahead and followed suit, and pulled my own videos that used their music. I have no desire to face down lawyers over something so ridiculous.

Yes. I expected people to be upset. But I also expected that people would be more mature and responsible about it. I mean, for the past 8 years, we've all known it was something of a gray area, right? I'm going to apologize for my more... harsh words, earlier.

This medium is terrible in it's current condition. Look at the stats on the main page. mainstream music, mainstream anime, these things are an example of people taking the easy way out. The majority defines the whole in this case. There's a broad road that's paved with bland mediocrity. It's mainstream mediocrity that gives the people who make AMV's a bad name, and it also attracts unnecessary attention to a fan-based art.

I say challenge the norms, i say use nonconventional music, and seek out lesser known anime. Find the truth behind the images, find the dance in the song and express the medium the way it's meant to be expressed. Uniquely, individually, and without succumbing to complacency.

I'm done. Have fun, everyone.

[Moha]

A fan was confused about some Evanescence AMVs found on this site. For some reason, the fan decided to attempt to contact Evanescence and ask if the band had created the videos.

What kind of idiot would contact the band itself regarding an AMV? The whole AMV thing is about videos from fans to fans. Anime studios or music bands will never create AMVs, that's entirely a fan-made thing.
Anyway, I think bands can only gain by AMVs, since if you download an AMV with a great music, you probably go and look up that band in the CD-shop...

I just hope that this kind of incident won't happen again.