Some Videos No Longer Available [Follow-up]

[aoi_neko]

IANAL, but it's not a dumb question at all, James. In fact, that's really a central legal argument. What you're describing is called "fair use with proper atttribution." For example, if I were to take 10 lines of Creed lyrics and put them in a scholarly report, and attribute them in a bilbliography, there's really not much that Creed or their label could do about it.

However, the problem is that "fair use" isn't defined all that well in the laws themselves, but rather more by custom and legal precedent. No one can *absolutely* say that using the music and video in an AMV is or isn't fair use until it's tested in a court, and that hasn't been done yet. (This smal degre of uncertainty, coupled with a lack of "criminal intent" would make it hard to prosecute either Phade or an editor for CRIMINAL copyright infringement.)

BUT, the odds are overwhelming that because so MUCH of the song is used in the average AMV, that either one could be successfully sued for CIVIL copyright infringement. i.e. it doesn't look likely, legally, that you could get sent to jail. But it does look REAL likely that that you could get successfully sued for a great big pile of money. That pile could be millions. (Why it's that high is another topic).

That's because "fair use" isn't a real strong right. Courts don't go out of their way to give people the benefit of the doubt on it; and the legal precendents that ARE out there make it look unlikely that the average AMV can squeeze in under that umbrella. Faced with a VERY slim chance of winning, a record label with huge amounts to spend on lawyers and potentially millions of dollars in damges if you lose, most everybody does exactly what Phade did.

[scottyhotty]

Or hell, I'll go to Tower Records and steal a CD. Then I go out and play it outside on my portable stereo. I'm "Promoting the CD" and helping Tower Records sell more by showing people on the street that good music is sold there. Then I get arrested and ask why. Hmmmmmmmm.

Are you actually foolish enough to think that piracy somehome equates to physical theft? That your analogy isn't fundamentally flawed? If so, then you have larger issues to work out.

I was just trying to make a point. Piracy is theft. Stealing a CD is theft. Get the picture?

While giving credit where credit is due is one thing, you are still using someone else's copyrighted property in full. You still need permission to do that. Maybe I can try to use another example. I'm gonna make a movie. It's not for my profit, but I use, say 60 minutes of Star Wars Eps. 3 film in it. Then I share it publicly. I'm sure George Lucas would have a fit if someone took his media property and used it without permission in a public fashion. The legal grounds on this are not something I'm aware of, but I'm sure as hell I would get in trouble.

Oh, one more thing, sure you can go to Limewire to D/L. Who doesn't? But if you can't find a good song there, you have other options. But from what I heard from that was you are trying to defend illegal activity with the stated fact that I'm stupid (ps - it's spelled YOU'RE, not YOUR... but don't worry, I make stoopid mistakes two) and can't use the internet efficiently? I am sorry if I made it sound like I was an internet Noob and couldn't steal copyrighted materials more efficiently like you x_rex30. FYI - Before Limewire and even Napster, there was a little something called MIRC.

I was trying to help everyone understand the other side of the fence. The point of view from the people who own the songs. There are so many people out there trying to defend piracy. And I use the term piracy VERY loose. We aren't trading music files here, but it's still unauthorized reproduction of copyrighted materials that's made available free of charge.

Like I said... other companies might follow Wind Up Records and ask that their music is pulled as well. We can only hope that doesn't happen.

[V37]

Although I'm not a big fan of those bands, I see this as a first strike against this community, which I don't like at all. Phade did everything he could, sure. But then again, you are not offering those songs as a direct download, you are offering them with a video. Which means, that this is fanmade, and thus a creation of your own.

I live in Germany, and law here says, that IF you change anything from the original, like we do (basically we change the song by just putting credit music to it....and by making an AMV), then you automatically can't be sued for publishing it anymore. Of course lawyers are good at what they do, and well....I think there are backdoors to anything.

My point is different nature though. Phade, for the sake of this site AND your heart - go see a lawyer. Ask what possibilities we have, ask him/her what kind of actions could be taken. I mean, what happens next? Imagine Linkin Park (which I'm not a fan of either.....) would have called you. That would have been how many videos?

We can't just wait and hope that nobody else makes a comment about this site, it's way too huge for that. So please, find out what we can do to prevent videos to get shut down.

It would be a pity to get a-m-v.org shut down now wouldn't it? This is epic, don't let it die over some copyright problems. Try to secure yourself and this site..... or we'll have to kill every lawyer on this world!! lol


V37

[valeyard]

I just thought fo a solution!! get a server that is not in the united states. Move them to canada where its legal. then say screw em. simple eh? Anime jedi would prolly take care of it if Phade set that up with him. Or someone else could do it.

Um, sorry but you are living in a fantasy world. First of all, Clinton signed the North American Free Trade Agreement. That means moving to Canada would NOT get you out of obeying American Copyright laws. Just as say using Rush in your video would not get you out of having to remove the video if Rush (a Canadian band) objected.

Further, people as far away as Chechezlovakia (or as it is now known the Chech Republic) have been prosecuted for violating copyright laws.

Sorry, its a small world after all, and they CAN get you.

[tyromaniac]

hehe......just imagine if Linkin Park got in on this.....
there would be a lot of bad AMVs gone, as well as some good, but mostly bad. Let's hope that doesn't happen........except for the bad ones where people make them just so they can feel special and have no point.

[x_rex30]

I was just trying to make a point. Piracy is theft. Stealing a CD is theft. Get the picture?

*writes down notes*

[freaky anime chick]

i think this proves that the world is going crazy at the moment. i may very well have been walking around with my eyes closed when i was younger but i dont remember anything about piracy or things like that a few years ago. ive got a stash of cassetts somewhere that i taped off the radio pluss movies and shows that i taped off the TV! and yes, ive leant these to friends occasionally!! does that make me evil? well i would hope not.

i know that AMVs are not 'legal' but in my mind it dosent really matter mainly because i can only play them on my computer. it may only be the fact that i lack the propper software but i cant split the audio file from the video file. well, i could but i'd have to play it on my computer and then tape it onto my dictation recorder then transfer it back onto the computer and convert the file into a MP3. but then the sound would be crappy.

i personally dont have anything against lawyers, they have one hell of a job to do and if they want to survive in their careers they have to do it well, just the same as everyone else. they have so many different things to remember and far too many ginormous thick books to read. i couldent do it. true, some ofthe may be sleezy, but they are usually small time pnes dealing with 'accident at work' cases. AKA Ambulance chasers.

as for the person who wrote to the band...well, i really do feel sorry for him/her. they are going to get so much hatred thrown at them just because they were genuinly curious about something. ok, it may seem to everyone else the wrong way to go about it but for that person it was probably the best way to et their questions answered. it would have been better if they had asked the powers that be at this site but its done now and as they say 'no use crying over spilt milk'
when wandering aimlessly around the offical 'Weird Al' website i read the FAQ's and someone had writte in to findout if Al had actually made a song that held some very derogitory lyrics. this question was prompted when the person downloaded a track of a P2P network which had Al's name attached to it. his people didnt go to the P2P site (i dont think) bt they did say that the song wasnt his and that using those sites is illegal so you shouldent really be doing it. but short of shutting down the internet entirely there isnto anything anyone could do about it.

lawers can shout about how uploading and downloading music is illegal and theyre going to put a stop to it, but whats to stor a group of people setting up some form of forum where the post a list of songs in their playlist and then contact each other and swap songs via e-mail?

i'm just going to end this rant by saying that after downloading a load of AMVs i have actually downloaded the songs themselves from legal download sites if i can. some of them arnt even available and believe me ive searched everywhere. so how are we supposed to listen to the music they say we should pay for when it isnt available to buy?

[Kalium]

I was just trying to make a point. Piracy is theft. Stealing a CD is theft. Get the picture?

The only points you've made are these:
1) You're a music industry shill.
2) You cannot differentiate unathorized copying of an item from from physically taking an item, a distinction made in law and thus rather well-defined.

Stop trying to redefine piracy to be theft, we're not foolhardy or music industry shills.

[yuppa]

Um, sorry but you are living in a fantasy world. First of all, Clinton signed the North American Free Trade Agreement. That means moving to Canada would NOT get you out of obeying American Copyright laws. Just as say using Rush in your video would not get you out of having to remove the video if Rush (a Canadian band) objected.

Further, people as far away as Chechezlovakia (or as it is now known the Chech Republic) have been prosecuted for violating copyright laws.

Sorry, its a small world after all, and they CAN get you.[/quote]

OK. listen carefully... The reason they were busted was they were making a profit!! Please do research next time. And if im not mistaking its LEGAL in canada to trade music, and in turn do stuff like AMV's there. AS LONG AS NO MONEY IS MADE.

But if you are going to be a troll.. There are places in the world you can go with them as long as its fan stuff and non profit. Or we could just go underground and weed out people who really are music industry zombies who have no real soul.

[Phoenix_X]

That means moving to Canada would NOT get you out of obeying American Copyright laws

Actually they can’t really get you in Canada, but because it's an American hosted and operated site RIAA and conglomerates can remove the link at best. then i host it on my own conection and there is no problem.

http://www.digital-copyright.ca/billc60/blog?from=40

Actually in Canada we have some thing called Bill C-60, not yet passed by the House of Commons, but if it is, the result is 10 times nastier than the DMCA ever was.

What the Conseratives want- privacy.

What the liberals want- digital copy rights.

And there fore if they can never agree Bill C-60 will never be passed. And until it is i can download all the bootleg music i want!