AWA 2005 Pro Contest Discussion Thread

[Ashyukun]

I think it depends in how you use the sources... Fancy Effects (piano keys, flashes, squares, etc are not ac "novel" either but still used all the time..

Vlad

Right, but I wouldn't make a 'Best Piano Keys' category though...

Actually, I did add one in two years ago. It was of course just done as joke (primarily to tweak DW, since it was named after him), but I wouldn't consider the Crossover category a joke. There really is a huge world of difference between heavily composited videos and non-composited videos. They may be <i>more</i> common these days, but they're still not the norm by any stretch and I imagine they never <i>will</i> be until it's as easy as telling a program, "OK, I want that character from this scene...." and it will mask it out on its own.

I think it's a worthwhile category for several reasons- first off it's specifically recognizing a very different style and level of work on a video. Secondly, I don't see it as being that the 'crossover' videos can't compete in with the others- I almost see it more as being, "The crossover videos would completely stomp the others simply because they are what they are." IMO, it's along the lines of why we separate drama and comedy videos out- by and large, the comedy videos are going to stomp the dramatic ones so they're separated to keep people voting on comparisons between apples and apples instead of apples and candied apples.

They'll still be competing in the respective themed categories- Dramatic crossovers in drama, comedic or upbeat ones in comedy & upbeat, and parody/trailers in parodies and/or trailers. Personally, I more make the distinction of separating out 'crossover' and 'multi-source' than anything else.

[aoi_neko]

Sure. But there are maybe 2 solid "these are crossover" videos, and 2-3 marginal "these could be called either crossover or multi-source" videos.

They'll compete on their own merits in upbeat/action/drama/whatever. Then again on their own merits on best techical/effects. Then again on their own merits for best overall. So why, exactly, do we need to make sure that at least one of them gets a special recognition simply because the creator made a crossover?

I have the same complaint over "Best foreign language" and "Best non-anime source." If we make categories with 2 solid entries and 2 marginal ones, we're simply rewarding LUCK -- "You get recognized because only 3 people did a <foo> video this year."

If there aren't enough contenders to reward skill instead, they should be combined until there are. So I'd lump "Best foreign language" and "Best non-anime source" together into "Best non-traditional source (non-English music or non-anime video)," and lump "multi-source" and "crossover" together into one as well.

[ProphetDK]

I think they'll have some way of wittling down the catagories. I mean ,some may not have enough vids and some may be able to be combined into others.

[Ashyukun]

I have the same complaint over "Best foreign language" and "Best non-anime source." If we make categories with 2 solid entries and 2 marginal ones, we're simply rewarding LUCK -- "You get recognized because only 3 people did a <foo> video this year."

So, we're simply rewarding 'luck' when we choose a 'Best Comedy' video this year, for example, because generally very few people submitted comedic videos? I realize that's a pre-established category, but the same argument you're making above pretty much applies to it as well. We make awards because different types of videos deserve different classifications.

(note: in the below I'm cutting and pasting from two different paragraphs since they both address the same point)

So why, exactly, do we need to make sure that at least one of them gets a special recognition simply because the creator made a crossover?

If there aren't enough contenders to reward skill instead, they should be combined until there are.

Honestly, I'd say that we are rewarding skill with the additional categories and not luck- but the crossover videos are just a very convenient example for that as they generally take far more time and effort than many 'traditional' videos do. I would argue though that making a good video with a foreign language song also takes skill- getting people into a video despite probably not having a clue what is being said takes skill as well, and a bit different of a skill than were the song done in English.

What it comes down to for me is I'd rather see us rewarding someone who made an exceptional video that many believe deserves recognition but that doesn't really fit well into any of the established categories than to say it should be lumped in with the nearest convenient category when it really stands in a category all its own and have it potentially get stomped. I'd rather encourage innovation and creativity than to say, "You need to do something that fits in more with everything else....". Part of our responsibility in Pro is to suggest new categories and decide whether to vote for something in them or not. If enough of us feel that something deserves the recognition, I think it should get it.

By and large, I doubt we're going to come to any real agreement on how we think things should go- which is fine. We're just 2 or 3 people out of the forty-something who entered the contest, and everyone will vote and not vote in categories as they see fit. I'm kind of glad for the disagreement in cases like this because it lets the different points be addressed so everyone can take them into consideration.

[aoi_neko]

Oh, I'm just talking, Ashyukun. And I don't think my opinion's worth more than yours or that either of us is going to change things. <laughs> But if we all agree, it makes for a boring conversation, right?

Comedy: Well, if we go with the traditional "Action, Drama, Comedy" division, comedy may be the least well represented, but there are enough so that we aren't just deciding between one or two videos. But yeah, if it were otherwise, I *would* say combine it with the next closest thing. For that mattter, you've pretty much got my attitude pegged: if it were me, I'd also take the predefined "horror" and "romance," and combine them with the next closest thing. ("Angst" and "sentimental," I guess.)

I understand your point, though. The only thing is that in the end, we'll only be able recognize a finite number of videos. I don't think we're going to able to give out 20 awards in 20 categories; and that it it boils down to say, 8, I'm a lot more comfortable if we're judging 8 groups of 7 each instead of 2 groups of 20 and 6 groups of 2.

Where you make me think the most is your point that even a so-so crossover video can represent much more effort. I gotta admit that one tugs at my sense of "fairness." I just don't know how to deal with that within a limited number of awards, because I don't know where it would stop.

[The Wired Knight]

Damn, the deadline's up, that means there's no point in me creating my "Pants" catagory, given to the best video to feature characters wearing pants.

[aoi_neko]

FYI:

The vote pages with the chosen nominees in each category seem to be up.

[Castor Troy]

Damn, the deadline's up, that means there's no point in me creating my "Pants" catagory, given to the best video to feature characters wearing pants.

I was gonna enter "Best video using the color blue" category.

[The Wired Knight]

Say. . .in retrospect. Did anyone else find it odd that there was no hentai video this year? Normally there's been at least one every year.

[Vlad G Pohnert]

Say. . .in retrospect. Did anyone else find it odd that there was no hentai video this year? Normally there's been at least one every year.

No, since there are a lot of songs with swears in them and ultra violent vids so who need hentai

Vlad