What's Originality?

[inthesto]

It's that category in the opinion scores that somehow manages to be even more useless than the rest.

[Otohiko]

Originality can be both concept and source. I think using wacked-out sources is usually a good thing, BUT...

But on the other hand, originality is really in the same category (and about as indicative of the video's actual quality) as effort. Just like working for 300 hours or something doesn't mean a thing if the resulting video sucks, a wacky source combo or an unusual concept isn't going to save a video that just doesn't work.

The worst thing originality can be is the dreaded "reverse imitation" - trying to make a video to be purposely the opposite of what someone else did to one-up them in some way. Thinking that you HAVE to make something "original" and different from everybody else often leads people into making videos they themselves don't actually want to make or are not properly qualified to make. Which therefore suck.

Originality, like effort, is secondary to any video. A degree originality, like an amount of effort, should only be determined by the demands of the project itself - and not determine the project. Wackiness, originality, and all that are good - but really all you should care about is making good, creative videos. All truly original videos come from editors who know how to make a GOOD video, not just an original one.

[DooKi`]

the problem about judging 2 people where ONE uses his only source where as the SECOND one uses it because he can is that how will you know whos who in the end. I guess the true definition of originality is defined by you and what you think. To make this even more difficult, the use of a typical anime/music cant really be used against the orignality just for the fact that:

A) Not everyone watches amvs. I started making them before I even watched them just because I enjoy editing. Now if its the case that anime/music choice really choses how original a video is, then being unfimiliar with modern amv background of whats over used and what isnt makes you UNORIGINAL?

B) One person can make 10 videos with the same anime and song and be different everytime. Yet most people will just say "thats been done before, unoriginal." Which isnt really the case. Most people I find on this site have grown to really despise anything repetitive even if the concept is COMPLETELY unique. Most of my friends even kringe when im like "here watch this dbz video" Even though there is some REALLY great videos, they just assume its dbz its bad.

[devilmaykickass]

A myth.

[JaddziaDax]

what if they just don't like DBZ...

personally i don't like looking at it because the drawings (though rather well done) are ugly to me .. to me it wouldn't matter if the footage is over done or not.

If i don't like a series I'm more than likely not going to enjoy an amv using that series...

hellz I still like watching Full Metal Alchemist, Evangelion, Cardcaptor Sakura, ect videos even though those sources are considered rather over used, but its more because I like those shows, and the animation styles as well.

but then again having good quality in a "anime series" that usually is full of not good quality videos can often gain you "originality" points... (maybe not from a critic who compares the video to other good quality videos, but to a fan of the show who is used to seeing low quality videos, a good quality video is very original for that series whatever it may be)

[Purge]

for me its basically whether its something I've seen or not seen before.

[Serv0]

Some interesting points have been made in this discussion since its post yesterday.
Let me first take the time to address some people.

A lot of the amvs I have found, that I have liked, I realized I liked, when practically no one else would.

Lestheanimesarge, this is a sign of uniqueness within a video, or something that's different in other words. I appreciate your points about the status quo of our society of AMV editors, such as most people not looking for unique concepts, or editors' popular demand of concepts.
Your quote that I chose to post, brings up another question that hope the good fellas of a-m-v.org can address. Pay very close attention.
Does a different and strange idea, good or bad, contribute to the originality factor everytime, most of the time, or none at all?

Kevmasterflashdeluxe wrote:
I disagree. The Sources play a big Role for originality as well. I personally Think Concept and Way of Editing are more important, but when someone uses an Overused Concept, BUT underused Sources (Music + anime), I'd rate it higher than a Video with the same Concept but an overused Anime like Naruto or DBZ and/or a Linkin Park, Disturbed or w/e song :/

Malificus wrote:

Liez.

If you can somehow make a unique linkin ball z video, that kinda makes you more original than the guy who choose a Indian Rap and stuck it to some obscure anime.

Kevmasterflashdeluxe wrote:
I was mainly talking about the Concept in this Case.


Imagine 2 AMV's with the same Concept.

One uses LinkinballZ, the other one the Indian Rap with obscure anime.

Which one would get the higher Originality rating?

Malificus wrote:
The latter would get it, but neither really deserves it over the other. Maybe the dbz editor only has that to work with, while the other has a vast library of sources. In a situation like that, it probably took more creativeness from the DBZ editor to get the same concept as the other guy, so he would deserve a higher originality rating. Or, assuming everything is equal concerning the available resources, neither is more creative than the other. They both had the same concept, and probably used the tools they felt best suited it.

There's one thing I disagree with the two with you on this one.

In terms of having a video use a single concept, yet have two choices between using Linkin Park, or Indian Rap, I will have to say that is not enough to determine the quality of originality. You have to see it for yourself in order to determine what works. You have a lot of details now streaming into the problem:
does the song fit the mood?
does the song fit the story I'm trying to convey?
does the song fit the concept?
The answer of yes for Linkin Park or yes for Indian Rap depends on the concept presented in the first place.

No. They would be as creative as the first person, but not as original. There can only be one.

You have a very strict perspective of originality KOH. You state that originality comes from the origin or the first one to create it. If this is true, does this mean that Ghost in the Shell is not an original work because of predecessors such as Blade Runner?
Another question to be addressed:
Does Originality come from the Alpha creator of the Alpha creation?

I do feel that your statement of creativity is very smart though. I agree that there's a fine line between creativity and originality.

It's that category in the opinion scores that somehow manages to be even more useless than the rest.

How so inthesto? Is the form of your statement in relation to how most reviewers don't properly address the originality factor?

Originality, like effort, is secondary to any video. A degree originality, like an amount of effort, should only be determined by the demands of the project itself - and not determine the project. Wackiness, originality, and all that are good - but really all you should care about is making good, creative videos. All truly original videos come from editors who know how to make a GOOD video, not just an original one.

A very smart statement. This answers a lot of questions Otohiko.

Not to name names, but I recently watched a video that was obviously experimental, justifying its original score it deserved. The problem though, was the fact that the video was extremely slow in pace, the sense of any development was lacking, and the re-watch factor was down low.
I considered the video very, very, original. But I didn't consider the video to be any good.

Otohiko reminds us of the important thing here, is to come back straight back to the video. It applies to anything of media.

"A sharp image is useless with a fuzzy idea."
-Jean-Luc Goddard. French Filmmaker.

A) Not everyone watches amvs. I started making them before I even watched them just because I enjoy editing. Now if its the case that anime/music choice really choses how original a video is, then being unfimiliar with modern amv background of whats over used and what isnt makes you UNORIGINAL?

Your first point is very pondering DooKi'. But I would like to state something in which I hope shines some light on the production of original work. This is inspired by DooKi''s A point. When you watch 'Blade Runner', the movie assumes that the audience hasn't read Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?. The movie in my perspective has revolutionized the modern cinema and has definitely influenced future cyberpunk movies, such as, Ghost in the Shell, Cowboy Bebop, The Matrix, and so on. In other words, I believe Blade Runner is an original work.
Apply this example to Anime Music Videos.
When I watch an AMV, I try to assume that I haven't seen the original source, despite having seen it in reality. This perspective allows me to view a person's work and perceive it as what it is. It helps me determine the originality as well.

Originality sometimes is determined by a video being what it's suppose to be, instead of being what it wants to be. Example: Equillibrium's influence from The Matrix. Or The Matrix's influence from Ghost In the Shell.

If i don't like a series I'm more than likely not going to enjoy an amv using that series...

This is entirely up to your personal preference and I'm not saying that your audience ethic is wrong. But realistically, your liking of the series shouldn't matter when it comes to judging the video.
Example:
I could care less about RahXephon. It's certainly not an anime I'm going to be watching again, but when I saw Koopiskeva's Euphoria, I thought it was amazing. Not the series, but the video.

[JaddziaDax]

When it comes down to a series that bores the hell out of you yet people keep pushing it on you anyways (well at least they don't anymore) you don't enjoy the series anymore, and frankly I've yet to see a DBZ video that compares to Euphoria

but I will say this: I have seen a couple of DBZ videos that I do like... so I won't loop all DBZ videos into the linkinballz genre (I get really bored really quickly of the "DBZ/Naruto Fight Sequences + Rock Song = AMV" formula, hell, I'd get bored of it even if it were a series I liked such as Full Metal Panic but pure "action" amvs that have no connection to the song I find rather boring no matter how action synced they are).

but when it comes down to it: I will only get/download/watch DBZ videos that are recommended to me by my friends or are made by an editor I recognize and know as a good editor. I have a bias. Thats life.

My liking a series shouldn't matter when it comes to giving scores on an opinion: I wouldn't give a lower Visual Quality score just because I think DBZ is ugly. I wouldn't give lower scores in anything except for maybe Review (because this is where my personal bias I "allowed" to come into play), because if I don't like a series I'm more than likely not going to watch this video often.

but I wasn't talking about scores on originality, I was talking about liking/disliking a video.

I like a lot of highly unoriginal videos, because I like them. They are enjoyable to me even if the idea has been done 1000000000 million times O: I make a lot of highly unoriginal videos because I like the concepts and maybe I hadn't done it before myself and I wanted to try it out.

which goes back to my original statement: make what you want.

[Pas]

I'm gonna make an AMV using no anime.

Now that's original

Seriously though, no one here will ever have total originality, because we are, after all, using anime that's already been made, and music that's already been played.

All I can say is, I'd rather watch a nicely edited, fun AMV over one that's trying so hard to be original that it's no good to watch.

In saying that however, originality often is the reason I watch many AMVs. Seeing the same thing used in and out gets boring fast.

[JaddziaDax]

zomg tunaburst O:
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