Anti-Trolling rule needs to take affect more?

[MaboroshiStudio]

At first I was going to do the award limit at MTAC, but I think I am going to opt for a 6 month fresh to the date of the con.

[MaboroshiStudio]

"I'm putting on a show for the audience. Editor ego and butt-hurt don't really enter into it.".

My unfiltered response to this I find this attitude / response to be BS imho... lol

There has to be a balance I say when it comes to judging and how contests are run, but that is just me and find that a few obnoxious trolls sour the experience for everyone in the amv community. Public pressure and calling people can work, but in regards to Baka Oppai I have heard he doesn't give a rip about it and the AMV community for that matter (what I was told). He trolls his videos even when they are not eligible... you know what how about create something new.

Then again when I started making AMVs back in the 90s and even if I didn't pay nice with some creators I showed them respect. When I had a video that won a couple times I retired it and made something new.... why? because I didn't want to be a DICK and because the video won / was recognized. Trolling a video to every con so I could win every award would be borderline narcism behavior in my book. Also like I said it was about respecting the other editors... not being me me me look at me!!!

If cons don't want to acknowledge how community feels and have a stfu "I only care about the audience" attitude maybe editors will stop sending to those cons. The same calling trolls out can happen to cons... just saying.

Currently there is little to no balance in regards to this issue...

[MaboroshiStudio]

I get what you're saying about the show being for the audience, but I think that it's important to remember that we can't put on contests without the editors (in the same way that a football game is for the millions of fans in the stadium, but it needs the few dozen players on the field to actually happen). So I think that its important to at least consider their thoughts and dissatisfaction with the current state of AMV contest circuit.

Well said Erik...

[BasharOfTheAges]

I get what you're saying about the show being for the audience, but I think that it's important to remember that we can't put on contests without the editors (in the same way that a football game is for the millions of fans in the stadium, but it needs the few dozen players on the field to actually happen). So I think that its important to at least consider their thoughts and dissatisfaction with the current state of AMV contest circuit.

If you are a big con, you can always find more editors. The gross proliferation of trolling in general shows that the number of people wanting to participate everywhere (one might say "wanting to be attention whores") is only increasing.

"I'm putting on a show for the audience. Editor ego and butt-hurt don't really enter into it.".

My unfiltered response to this I find this attitude / response to be BS imho... lol

There has to be a balance I say when it comes to judging and how contests are run, but that is just me and find that a few obnoxious trolls sour the experience for everyone in the amv community. Public pressure and calling people can work, but in regards to Baka Oppai I have heard he doesn't give a rip about it and the AMV community for that matter (what I was told). He trolls his videos even when they are not eligible... you know what how about create something new.

Then again when I started making AMVs back in the 90s and even if I didn't pay nice with some creators I showed them respect. When I had a video that won a couple times I retired it and made something new.... why? because I didn't want to be a DICK and because the video won / was recognized. Trolling a video to every con so I could win every award would be borderline narcism behavior in my book. Also like I said it was about respecting the other editors... not being me me me look at me!!!

If cons don't want to acknowledge how community feels and have a stfu "I only care about the audience" attitude maybe editors will stop sending to those cons. The same calling trolls out can happen to cons... just saying.

Currently there is little to no balance in regards to this issue...

Well, first off, pretty much nobody ignores the issue entirely. Why do you think there are freshness rules at all? Most cons seem to have them in some form, and while my normal cynic's response is that new cons just find other cons to copy/paste their rules from and no real thought goes into making them up, I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt that some coordinators care to have at least a 1-year freshness ruling.

Secondly, tightening and restricting things only serves to increase the burden on coordinators for no appreciable gain. Here are some unavoidable truths:
- If you are a smaller con, tightening entry requirements will cause your numbers drop and you get fewer quality videos to show. If your contest is small enough, you're already showing stuff that's causing people to question why they bothered to show up.
- If you're a larger con, you can freely scrap your 20 best videos and still have a great, well-attended contest anyway. The only requirements you should be bothering to alter are ones that reduce the amount of low-tier content your prescreeners have to slog through.
- Now more than ever, the number of editors that are trolls (and are proud to be by some accounts if you look around the forums) is far greater than people willing to boycott cons that allow them. The number of people that simply can't find a fuck to give is degrees of magnitude higher than both of these groups. There is no "community" backlash - that's echo-chamber talk.
- If cons can't get enough videos to put on good contests, they will not come scraping back to beg pardon from butt-hurt boycotters. They will scrap their contest entirely and main events will gain another cosplay event based around a board game / poorly acted mock combat or another knock-off of a television game show will spring up. These events will play to packed houses and forever claim space. No tears will be shed.

-

At the end of the day, an event gets schedule space at a con if it can pull in and entertain an audience. If it can't, it will lose the space. The average audience member doesn't attend multiple cons, so they have no idea and don't really have a reason to care. It has to be for them. If your only way to make it about them is taking your ball and going home in the hopes that they'll be deprived of anything in the future, you need to stop being so petty and grow up.

[MaboroshiStudio]

you need to stop being so petty and grow up.

Says the guy who throws a personal slam? Excuse me while I laugh... and you completely missed the point and pretty rude. Seriously man not called for and only says stuff about you.

[BasharOfTheAges]

you need to stop being so petty and grow up.

Says the guy who throws a personal slam? Excuse me while I laugh... and you completely missed the point and pretty rude. Seriously man not called for and only says stuff about you.

And out-of-context selective quoting says what exactly? That you work in politics?

[MaboroshiStudio]

you need to stop being so petty and grow up.

Says the guy who throws a personal slam? Excuse me while I laugh... and you completely missed the point and pretty rude. Seriously man not called for and only says stuff about you.

And out-of-context selective quoting says what exactly? That you work in politics?

When you can have a discussion without attacking let me know... don't understand why you have to be nasty. You made you point but the venom was not required.

[MaboroshiStudio]

The extra effort is a concern I agree... and the discussion here is to find options. I was thinking award limit but then after speaking with Vlad I am more leaning to freshness. If you don't think it is an issue nor that is fine as we are all coordinators and we can run our contest how we see like. Variety is good... and all I am aiming for is a good balance for both the editors and audience.

[Gene Starwind 21122]

The extra effort is a concern I agree... and the discussion here is to find options. I was thinking award limit but then after speaking with Vlad I am more leaning to freshness. If you don't think it is an issue nor that is fine as we are all coordinators and we can run our contest how we see like. Variety is good... and all I am aiming for is a good balance for both the editors and audience.

I do agree with you. I also agree that it would limit smaller cons on the number of entries they get. However at the same time the hope is to have editors start creating more videos and submitting new stuff, instead of relying on their old amv's that have won. I don't mind losing to the same editor, but when you're losing to the same video over and over again that has won multiple awards, there is no point in trying to enter a contest.

Again I know people are going to say "why don't you just make a better video."

It's not only just me, but you look at the other editors there are some really good amv's out there that don't make the cut because of all the trolls that take up a spot in the contest and they don't get exposure.

So the point here is "how can we not hurt the smaller con's and still have a contest be fresh."

I'm trying a new idea for Nekocon called Battle of the Greats. Where there is no age limit in this second amv contest we will be running. Editors can enter there videos as long as it has won 2 or more major awards. This contest is to show the best going against the best.

We then still have our regular AMV Contest too.

So this is just an idea, but maybe it will work.

[Vlad G Pohnert]

Gene, I think you missed one important point I was trying to make earlier.. To restrict winning multiple awards does not really solve the problem of trolling fairness to those who enter if you go down that path.

In the end, it should not be about winning, but getting a chance to have your video played in the finals on the big screen in front of a large audience. My point is putting limits on awards does not eliminate trolling as I see a lot of video that don't win a lot but they always end up in the finals of a lot of cons. Technically if the argument is against trolling, you will have to work on that as well as if the same videos always get in at lots of cons, then the argument of others not wanting to enter as they will not get in still exists. You would have to consider to extend rules to include how many times you can be a finalist and now this starts to get way to complicated and potentially some may see that as unfair.

One thing for sure, you can always add rules or make them more complex, but in the end one has to balance how they work for both the show your putting on and the editors. Both are important and thus I really don't see a way to totally resolve what coordinators here are calling "anti-trolling" fully. Everyone has their own views as already mentioned it makes the flavour of each contest unique or different so that fine too.

To me, when I write rules on this, I also like to take into consideration the community as a whole and that is also important as say for example if AX, Sakura-Con, Anime Boston, Otakon, etc. were to go to a rule of must premier at the contest to fully combat trolling, that would seriously hurt a LOT of the smaller cons. This is kind of what I getting at in having further discussions so at least we see where we all as coordinates thing the trends should go.

Vlad