selling AMVs?

Anonyma · Post by **Anonyma** » Thu Feb 27, 2003 1:28 am

iserlohn wrote:In Vic's defense, he DID give out a number of freebies to people he owed favors to.....

as well as to the producer of the Ah! My Goddess movie...

Mr. Inoue seemed flattered.

Mr. Inoue also stated that his official stance about fansubs was that they are illegal, and that (in most cases anyway) is a completely non-profit portion of the fan community.

Anime companies are tolerating AMVs so far but if they keep getting pushed you might notice conventions will no longer do them... just like how most large conventions can't show fansubs anymore.

iserlohn · Post by **iserlohn** » Thu Feb 27, 2003 1:32 am

Stuey: What a con shows varies on who they're trying to impress. Let's look at three of the larger cons out there, shall we?

Katsucon - Showed fansubs until Katsucon 8, when Viz told them that they'd yank corporate representation if they had fansubs. Katsu yanked the fansubs as well as all of Viz's programming. Since Toshi is a regular to the con, there's no going back.

AX - The American industry runs this con and the number of Japanese industry who show up at this con as either guests or industry reps (check the AX industry list sometime, it's really frelling long) are the important people.

Otakon - Showed fansubs in 2002, appears to have every intent for 2003.

All of these cons still have AMV contests =)

EarthCurrent · Post by **EarthCurrent** » Thu Feb 27, 2003 1:34 am

Stueypark wrote:... just like how most large conventions can't show fansubs anymore.

Which isn't all that bad. Considering the vast shelves of domesticaly available anime it nice to be able to hit a con and be able to check out a lot of current titles you might not be familiar with.

zenmetsu · Post by **zenmetsu** » Thu Feb 27, 2003 1:50 am

jal0021 wrote:AMVs just aren't all that profitable of an endeavor, so no one will be able to make off like a bandit, no matter how hard they try.

once again, it's not how much money someone is making on the endeavor, it's the fact that they're making any money at all that makes it wrong.

jal0021 wrote:Second, while we're obviously violating copyright when we distribute AMVs, I don't buy into the idea that we're truly ripping any anime companies off - that is, adversely affecting their bottom line.

i'm having to repeat myself again. amvs are no "real" threat to the anime companies. that is, amvs are in no way going to take away from sales of their dvds. that's not the issue. if anime companies see that people are making money (however little) off of their licenses without their authorization, they will try to stop them. if it comes to court... if a company does not defend its copyright, it loses it. so they can't just "let it go."

jal0021 wrote:To be honest, if you're truly ripping anyone off, it's whoever holds the rights to the music you used, as it's there uncut and in its entirety (most of the time).

although they generally have bigger fish to fry, that is a concern.

jal0021 wrote:As long as fansubbers are safe, I think we can relax.

fansubbers get cease-and-desist orders all the time.

earthcurrent: i don't know about you, but i could theoretically see the vast shelves of domestically available anime at any time. i think it's really nice to go to a con and be able to see something that i can't see anyplace else.

iserlohn: i don't really know how that's supposed to be a defense. if i was producing things legally or illegally, i don't think i'd charge friends for my product. i also don't remember seeing any fansubs on otakon's video schedules for the past few years, though i could have easily just missed them. or they were last minute schedule changes, and thus were not part of the official schedule anyway.

EarthCurrent · Post by **EarthCurrent** » Thu Feb 27, 2003 1:57 am

I'm talking mainly pre-release showings.

MistyCaldwell · Post by **MistyCaldwell** » Thu Feb 27, 2003 2:10 am

I don't think many people are quite getting what you are trying to say zenmetsu.

I'll try and paraphrase a bit.

If any company decides to be official and tell a popular amv maker (or giant organization

) they want them to cease and desist, then what does the community do? Do you keep making amvs? Perhaps but then it may be a bit harder to have easy to find/popular meeting sites on the web or to showboat them at contests at cons the way we currently enjoy.

What if it was a legal hassle for cons to show music videos if just one copyright holder full of piss and vinegar that got out the legal tape. In all actuality, there is no way to fully secure ourselves from being told we can't make the amvs since they are illegal to distribute, though technically ok to make.

But what things could cause a company to decide they need to stand up and defend their property in the first place?

That is what I believe zenmetsu is trying to say. Not that we should pick on people who make dvds of their work, that is not what they are saying. Just that there are some things we may need to consider before we act in a hobby that takes generous liberties in how legal it is.

zenmetsu · Post by **zenmetsu** » Thu Feb 27, 2003 3:01 am

last thought for the night. maybe i think we shouldn't be doing anything that would make the anime companies more concerned about what amvs mean for their copyrights. maybe i think we shouldn't do anything that might piss them off. because misty's right, it would only take pissing off one company to have them start making it a hassle. they could effectively end the amv community as we know it and drive our hobby underground. no more contests. shut down the org. stuff like that.

selling amvs puts the hobby in a whole new realm of copyright infringement. and the further we go, the more likely it is that just one company will get fed up with it all. i'm not saying that it will happen soon or even at all, but it might. i don't want to take that chance.

words to the wise: we're breaking copyright law! shouldn't we proceed with caution?

Anonyma · Post by **Anonyma** » Thu Feb 27, 2003 1:31 pm

That's exactly it, we need to keep AMVs as far under the radar as possible. Companies are required by law to defend their copyrights or they lose them so if we (the AMV community) starts making any real types of 'challenges' to the industry it could lead to trouble. It would only take legal action by a single company and in a hobby where we use material owned by almost a hundred animation studios, TV stations, and distributors it's not hard to find an enemy. Not to mention the RIAA which has been on the legal warpath lately.

Org Profile · Post by **VicBond007** » Thu Feb 27, 2003 5:10 pm

Good idea. Better get rid of this site. It gets a couple thousand hits per day and basically acts as a nexus to hundreds of thousands of these illegal videos, not to mention encourages the production of new ones!

Corran · Post by **Corran** » Thu Feb 27, 2003 5:15 pm

Have you even tried to listen to zenmetsu with an open mind?...