selling AMVs?

dokidoki · Post by **dokidoki** » Fri Feb 28, 2003 12:47 am

Nightowl wrote:If you have a good lawyer, and you're dokidoki, MAYBE you can argue parody or satire

Woohoo!

FurryCurry · Post by **FurryCurry** » Fri Feb 28, 2003 12:49 am

dokidoki wrote:
Nightowl wrote:If you have a good lawyer, and you're dokidoki, MAYBE you can argue parody or satire
Woohoo!

/me applauds mightily!

zenmetsu · Post by **zenmetsu** » Fri Feb 28, 2003 2:12 am

i'm sick of this thread. i knew when i started this that everyone's reaction would be "you can't stop me" and "no one cares." it all leaned toward the copyright debates, but i wanted a debate more on the ethics of the subject.

i can't accept that the fact we all break some copyright laws means that it's not any MORE wrong to break MORE laws. hell, by some of your arguments you could say it's okay to pirate all your software, because it's meaningless to be in the wrong but less in the wrong than others. i suppose it sounds funny to try to take a moral high ground in a hobby that by its very nature breaks copyright laws. i know most people are of the mind that it's only wrong if you get caught. unless we're nailed to the floor, there's no reason to stop, right?

yeah, because there's no grey area at all. we're all breaking the law, so it's no use trying to break less laws, let's just break them all. it must be easier to live life when you only see in black and white. but it doesn't seem hypocritical to me for someone here to want to break as few laws as possible. sure if you say it in a whiny voice it sounds stupid, but maybe you should think about it some. i was trying to caution people, not dictate.

i remember when metallica went after napster, people claimed that they were greedy and just wanted more money. and they replied that they were losing money each day they participated in those legal battles, but they were doing it anyway because they thought it was right. they thought they had a duty to protect their material and other artists' material. think of that what you will. but it sounds like exactly what anime companies would say if they ever did turn on the amv community.

yeah, this debate is stupid. it was a result of overestimating everyone's intelligence. sorry. my bad.

TaranT · Post by **TaranT** » Fri Feb 28, 2003 4:03 am

zenmetsu wrote:i'm sick of this thread....yeah, this debate is stupid. it was a result of overestimating everyone's intelligence. sorry. my bad.

I don't know why you're giving up. Practically everyone who posted here agrees with you, including me.

The following article, datelined yesterday, suggests what could happen (I agree with others, the probability is very low). It doesn't apply to us completely since no one here sells warez. And it is a DMCA-based prosecution against an individual, not against a Web site or its users. Nevertheless, the site was "confiscated". Call it "collateral damage".

reuters.com wrote:U.S. Takeover Fails to Shutdown Bootleg Web Site
Wed February 26, 2003 03:47 PM ET

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. Justice Department said on Wednesday it had seized a Web site that offered information on bootlegged video games and movies, but the site remained available to many Internet users.
The Justice Department said it had taken over the Web site (http://www.isonews.com) after its owner pleaded guilty to selling computer chips that would enable users to play bootleg video games on Microsoft Corp. Xbox consoles.

Some visitors to the site found a warning against copyright infringement and a link to the Justice Department's computer-crime division, but others were able to reach a version of the original site, which serves as a meeting place for Internet users.

A Justice Department spokesman was not immediately available for comment.

The site, which claimed up to 140,000 hits each day, does not contain illegal copies of video games, software and movies, but instead contains message boards where Internet users can trade tips about such "warez," and visitors continued to post messages there early on Wednesday afternoon.

A computer network engineer explained to Reuters that the domain name pointed to at least two numerical Internet addresses, only one of which was controlled by the government. Users would encounter differing versions of the Web site depending on which address was stored by their "name servers," which match domain names to numerical addresses, the engineer said.

According to the Justice Department, David Rocci, 22, agreed to surrender the site after pleading guilty last December to importing 450 Enigmah Mod Chips from Britain and selling them for between $45 and $60 apiece.

Rocci will face a prison sentence of up to five years and fines up to $500,000 at his sentencing on March 7, the government said.

"David Rocci developed a public Web site that specifically catered to the underground piracy community," said Assistant Attorney General Michael Chertoff. "He attempted to profit by marketing circumvention devices to that community knowing they would be used to play pirated games."

All of this probably took place after Microsoft lodged a complaint, although it's possible the DOJ took action on its own initiative. Note that this is the same Justice Department that says it doesn't have enough personnel to hunt terrorists.

Anonyma · Post by **Anonyma** » Fri Feb 28, 2003 1:44 pm

well, hunting down terrorists takes work, shutting down a website only takes a look at WHOIS

Drawshot · Post by **Drawshot** » Sat Mar 01, 2003 3:23 pm

TaranT wrote:I don't know why you're giving up. Practically everyone who posted here agrees with you, including me.

I think the reason he is fed up is that despite his very detailed description of what is wrong with selling AMVs, the people's opinions that he would like to change on the matter remain indifferent. The heart of the matter still lies in that Vicbond decided to very visibly advertise that he had his AMVs for sale.

One thing that I don't think Vicbond realizes is that he has turned his hobby into a business. The act of selling your AMVs, whether you are making a profit or not, makes it a business. For example, photography has been a hobby of mine for a long time. Several years ago, I started selling a few of my photographs, and actually got a few freelance assignments. I still can't make enough with my photography to make a living doing it. And, I am still nowhere near even recouping the costs of my equipment. But, I can no longer call it just a hobby. Money has changed hands, so it is a business now.

Many people admire Vicbond, and see him as an example of what they can do. He needs to realize that his actions can affect the entire community. I think we are all safe making AMVs as long as it remains a hobby, and never becomes a business.

Fluxmeister · Post by **Fluxmeister** » Sun Mar 02, 2003 3:19 pm

zenmetsu,

I happen to agree with your stance. I wouldn't be pleased to see someone selling dvds/cds of their amvs. (or worse ... of others amvs)

To make my thoughts clear and precise: I will never SELL cds of my amvs, and I sure as hell won't BUY any dvds/cds with amvs. I gave away cds at awa, and plan to again next year.

If I need to get the latest Vicbond video, I'll use mr. internet... it's worked before!

(otherwise I wouldn't have seen any of them!)

As for the law etc... there are 6 pages of that argument. No need to repeat...

please paypal me money for amvs!!!!one1!thirteen%ô_ô!!!!!, my system has been ravaged by a bad case of 'lacking 250gb of more space' I NEEEEEEEEEEED IT. HELP THE FOUNDATION FOR HEAVENS SAKE!

mexicanjunior · Post by **mexicanjunior** » Sun Mar 02, 2003 4:02 pm

Fluxmeister wrote: please paypal me money for amvs!!!!one1!thirteen%ô_ô!!!!!, my system has been ravaged by a bad case of 'lacking 250gb of more space' I NEEEEEEEEEEED IT. HELP THE FOUNDATION FOR HEAVENS SAKE!

OMFG!!!

*paypals cash*

Fluxmeister · Post by **Fluxmeister** » Sun Mar 02, 2003 4:13 pm

ack I just realized that paypal and amvs is related to this topic also...

Nappy · Post by **Nappy** » Mon Mar 03, 2003 4:00 pm

I can see AMV contests being shut down if more ppl start advertising their DVD/CDs for sale, and at their acceptance speech no less. Alot of guests of honor see them and if they see all these winners selling their stuff all they would need to do is say we won't support your con if you continue to show amvs. They don't see it as oh its just cost, plus a little extra *wink, wink* All they see is there's my work up on the big screen, being used in someone elses work, and now they want to sell it and are advertising to all these ppl at a con I'm supporting hmmmmmm....

Most likely the con will give in, (they don't really get money from amvs, not many ppl goto cons just for the contest cept some creators and a few hardcore amv fans) and I see other cons following the same pattern, or at least big ones that are supported but these guests.