Calling all veterans

Arigatomina · Post by **Arigatomina** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 4:37 pm

Zarxrax wrote:Hmmm... indeed the guides are getting so big its frightening. Perhaps a 'light' version would be a nice addition? Only telling the bare minimum of what you should do, no explanations, and plenty of pics for what buttons and settings and junk...

Oh, don't get me wrong. ^_^; If it weren't for the guides I'd still be using a little dvdtoavi converter to get my footage. And I know each time I read over the guides I find myself more interested in the descriptions of everything in there. But that's because I'm reading them when I don't *have* to learn - I take more in when I'm not trying to weed out each specific step, I'm just reading and learning. But I've had people tell me the guides read like a different language, and I've done a number of translations for friends - just marking out each individual step with minimal explanation (like aspi layer). When I compared those walkthroughs to the original it's like reading sparknotes in comparison to a novel. If all you want to know is how to rip a dvd, or deinterlace your footage, a lot of the information is going to go right over your head, and it's hard to get *just* the facts you need if you're not good at taking in a lot of new information - especially if you've no technical aptitude (like me ~_~).

Anyway, I'm not saying the guides aren't wonderful (though I have my doubts about Quu's guide - more explanation on getting footage *using* the programs he links to would help), just that they go indepth and make it hard to know exactly which steps you want to be using. Almost every instruction is qualified, with background explanations, and it's overwhelming on the first 4 reads. I think I've gone over the 'all things video' about 8 times so far, and it wasn't until the last time that I actually thought I'd learned something besides underlining the steps to follow - and I'm one of those who usually enjoys learning for myself.

Yeah, I appologize if I'm not making much sense (I'm a little out of it) - I just don't want anyone to think I'm not very grateful for the guides. ^_^;

OmniStrata · Post by **OmniStrata** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 4:55 pm

Zarxrax wrote:Hmmm... indeed the guides are getting so big its frightening. Perhaps a 'light' version would be a nice addition? Only telling the bare minimum of what you should do, no explanations, and plenty of pics for what buttons and settings and junk...

/me salutes!!!

Especially an After Effects Guide... Good Lord...

oh wait...

AAAAAAGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH

/me runs from thrown stone rocks...

post-it · Post by **post-it** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 5:42 pm

Zarxrax wrote:Hmmm... indeed the guides are getting so big its frightening. Perhaps a 'lighter' version

8)

Nurd · Post by **Nurd** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 6:27 pm

Despite what could be construed as an almost caustic tone to my email, I bear no ill will towards you, and on the very slim chance there is something I know that could help you in some way, feel free to ask.

I'm just a n00b myself, and believe me, viewing my, so far one and only, video, would probably make most people cringe.

Nurd

DriftRoots · Post by **DriftRoots** » Wed Aug 13, 2003 10:45 am

No offense taken and none meant! I am very glad flaming as an artform can be practiced reasonably.

Just want to address a few points, then finish up by adding something I should have said right off:

1. Learn by doing - of course! I never meant to imply AMV-making is something other than a trial and error experience. As with anything, though, it certainly helps if you are made aware beforehand of errors to avoid, rather than doing things the hard way and wasting a lot of time. Discussion on these forums and elsewhere about the qualities of a "good" AMV vs. a "bad" one are a must-read, and I have read them and been very attentive.

2. AMVs are an artform, not a process. Again, of course! I never meant to imply there is a formula by which a good AMV can be created, just that there are things in the creation process which, I am sure, are relatively common to all good AMVs (awareness of rhythm/themes/action sequences etc.) that are taken into account by a creator consciously of subconsciously. Perhaps a checklist would be possible for people starting out with AMVs (and even those who are experienced) of things they should keep in mind before, during and after the creation process. While not a bible of perfection, this might at least prevent some glaring problems/errors from being overlooked by someone who's not sure what the heck they're doing.

3. I have read and learned much from the guides at this site, but many of my questions are still unanswered and, for the most part, rather basic in nature. I don't want to pester people on this forum for the information, knowing what can of worms that could open. As was mentioned several times, the same questions being asked over and over are understandably irritating - hence creating an atmosphere in which requesting help is sort of a leap of faith.

And finally -
I agree with what is being said about creating simpler AMV guides and and intended to mention exactly this earlier before I got carried away. Some ideas from an inexperienced, would-be AMV creator who admires others' work are as follows:

Anatomy of an AMV - again, the checklist kind of guide. Something like this is already reflected in the categories you rate an AMV in, I'm sure those could be expanded to address the production process itself.

AMV's in depth - Successful artists are not too keen on sharing their every technique for creating a piece of art, nor can they, as much cannot be explained or imitated. Still, it's frustrating to watch an AMV, see an effect or something that you think is really neat and either want to try it yourself and/or expand upon the idea - but have no clue where to start.
Would anyone offer up their AMV, or even a part of one, and "pick it apart" with regards to how the clip was made, piece by piece? I know I personally learn by being shown something, then trying it myself. While this sort of thing may end up being outrageously technical in nature and intelligible to beginner AMVers, it wouldn't have to be. We all know how wonderfully Adobe provides documented help with their programs <---- sarcasm. It would be nice to see examples of how Premiere/After Effects has been used to create this or that clip from an AMV.

Heck, there's a new category for a contest - Best AMV Walkthrough Guide!

Nurd · Post by **Nurd** » Wed Aug 13, 2003 12:24 pm

That doesn't sound like a bad idea, not so much walking someone else through how to make a video, but kind of a mental tour of how a certain person made their video. If my current video wasn't so terribly simplistic I would offer it up for such a project, perhaps if my next one comes out to my liking I'll write up a piece like that.

I am certainly no expert, but hell, if anything can be garnered from my experiences and passed along as good advice, it will be worth the few minutes of extra effort. That will be some time coming though, as I still have miles of footage before I sleep.

Nurd

Sinkua · Post by **Sinkua** » Wed Aug 13, 2003 10:23 pm

Teaching and learning is a 2-person process. Someone has to be willing to learn before they can be taught. Teachings will sound condescending most of the time, because you're being told how to do something by someone with more (worthwhile) experience. Take that in stride and not personally.
If you're not familiar with it, it will come across as unclear and probably go right over your head. Start with the simplest solution offered, going through it step-by-step at your own pace. There's no rush whatsoever.

One rant I do have on the Guides, though, is the part about matching up action with lyrics. I find it rather amateur if someone suddenly throws in a tornado scene or wind spell scene on a line like "Whirlwind inside of my head." It shows that they take the line too literally. Rather, a character having a panic attack or something of the sort would fit better here. But that's just my 2/5ths-of-a-nickel.

Dannywilson · Post by **Dannywilson** » Wed Aug 13, 2003 11:01 pm

DriftRoots wrote:AMV's in depth - Successful artists are not too keen on sharing their every technique for creating a piece of art, nor can they, as much cannot be explained or imitated. Still, it's frustrating to watch an AMV, see an effect or something that you think is really neat and either want to try it yourself and/or expand upon the idea - but have no clue where to start.
Would anyone offer up their AMV, or even a part of one, and "pick it apart" with regards to how the clip was made, piece by piece? I know I personally learn by being shown something, then trying it myself. While this sort of thing may end up being outrageously technical in nature and intelligible to beginner AMVers, it wouldn't have to be. We all know how wonderfully Adobe provides documented help with their programs <---- sarcasm. It would be nice to see examples of how Premiere/After Effects has been used to create this or that clip from an AMV.

Once my vid shows at AWA, I'll go through and do a step by step of how I did it. Would that work? It will be mid october by the time the guide would be completed though... If someone else wants to step up in the meantime, go right ahead.

WalterScott · Post by **WalterScott** » Wed Aug 13, 2003 11:32 pm

Well I've only made a handful of AMVs at this point but I can tell you some things that have worked for me. Don't worry so much about special effects. There are plenty of 'classic' videos made w/ simple cuts and fades and even some w/ 2 VCR method (shudder). On the other hand effects can easily be overused and can detract from your intent. What I have tried to do is try to learn a couple of new technical skills with each video.

Anyway the technical side should be secondary to the art -- having something to say and figuring out how to say it. In the best of situations an idea will just possess you and you will just see certain sequences in your mind. This happened for me with Here Comes the Flood set to Future Boy Conan. I could not get the images out of my mind so I made a rough cut in one weekend. A year later I had learned a little bit more (I'm slow) so I went back and redid the same video with slightly better source quality and rearranged some scenes and added some overlays until it was "con submission" quality. This took me several more weekends (again, I'm slow).

Or to take another example from the guides, I always ignored all the stuff about IVTC, 24 fps, etc. Just put a giant Somebody Else's Problem field around it. Finally when I had some extra time laid out I sat down and read over those parts about three or four times until I felt I actually understood the principles involved. Then I went and tried to apply it to a new project. Of course I still made mistakes

[Note of caution: sometimes BeSweet will fail to resample your audio. You can tell this has happened if the output is the same size as the input....]

OmniStrata · Post by **OmniStrata** » Thu Aug 14, 2003 12:03 am

It depends on the editor actually.

[I'm willing to teach via aim/icq text chat]

I prefer ops though. It's hard to catch somebody's mistakes if you're "walking them" through and you are not physically there. I know how to teach. I can teach someone how to ride a bike, drive a car, karate, etc. If I can do it, I can teach it.

Problem is, whoever is my student may have awesome special fx power, but will end up sucking theme wise... [only doing romantic happy stuff ^_^]